585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --

[hubel458]

To get performance out of a necked down Lapua case you got to run 80k psi,

where at 50k our 585 is doing 10,000 ft lbs. Most of the guns listed we

have done have barrel tenons 1 1/8 ", If actions are soft they just need

heat treating. Guy here has Howa for example that has 375 Ruger in it that

runs much higher pressures than our 585 regular hunting loads and we are putting

the 585 in it... IE, the Ruger, Savage, and Howa have as big of bolt lug cross

sections as the big Enfield and the big MRC PH. And bigger than the Mausers

and the BBK here and other mauser style bolt lugs. Ed

 

[hubel458]

In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.

Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many guys with Trex guns can't get cases.

Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.

Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.

And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed

 

[hubel458]

There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;

Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia, set up

for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed

the first AUS buffalo by a 585HE, that I posted picture of above. You can

go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the

style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock will be finished brown

and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed

 

[hubel458]

One of the first of modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first in records in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585".

They rebated the rim quite a ways to fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action.
Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I am glad to be a wildcatter,
and think I'm in great company of big bore gun nuts, old and new.
Here is picture of the old MG Mag.Ed

 

[fmajor]

WOW! I'm speechless (well almost.....!).

Hubel - Thanks so much for posting this remarkably interesting thread. Your innovations are simply amazing and nothing short of genius.

Admittedly I am a complete "greenhorn" to these types of ultra-powerful dangerous game rifles, but they are truly amazing.
For hunting large bears or dangerous game on the African continent, your cartridge/chamberings and rifle platforms would be #1 on my rifle shopping list!

Obviously on this site, the emphasis is on long-range hunting and shooting. So large cases and small to medium bore projectiles are the norm.

There are many innovative and highly skilled folks here who would look at your amazing case and automatically think of necking it down to maybe .338 or even .375 caliber. They would dream of launching the highest BC bullets at super-sonic velocities in these calibers to use for hunting game where long shots are the only shots possible.

Your illustrations of "normal" sized receivers and bolts using your large brass cases seem (to my uneducated eyes) to make pushing the current "limits" somewhat more feasible to reasonably knowledgeable long-range shooters.

 

[hubel458]

Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE necked down, the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.

First picture I got sent me today off of facebook and this one is from the great sniperforums.

Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up circular space, say like our 24ga FH, but which is perfect for

break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

 

[Swamplord]

Mr. Hubel

Thank you for the kind words !

It was quite the experience and after mangling a dozen cases I was able to perfect a neck down process with 2 dies and 9 bushings to gradually reduce that huge neck, the best part of necking it down was the resulting neck thickness is .015" when necked down to 375 caliber, the reamer is ordered for a no neck turn chamber ! starts off at .010" and instead of heavy thickening it actually grows outward for a case length of 3.312" which I trim to 3.30" , I am certain that by using multiple bushings and a LOT of Imperial Sizing lube the process is simplified , skipping any one of the bushings collapses the case neck ! The shoulder you see in photo is from a necked down case, fireforming will sharpen up the 35* angle ...

Plugging all the dimensions into Quick Design calculates 190.2 gr of h2o capacity but it still has to be fireformed to fill out the case body a bit and will also pull some of that neck material back and will shorten the case length up a bit , I called it 188.0 gr of h20 capacity from similar results with other wildcats I developed ....

At this time I am also doing what I named the "416 Destroyer" (416/585 HE 35*) followed by 408 & 458 calibers also .......

Thank you for developing the 585 Hubel Express !

 

[Swamplord]

...........

 

[hubel458]

I like the 416 Destroyer name, and I like the double venturi

look of the neck. Maybe get reamers and dies/swages to keep that neck

design. Maybe swage down easier that way.. will get you a deal on cases as it

appears guys have gone apey over them, and are going to want you to make them

in volumne, hahah, you just got in the in demand class of gun nuts.

Best powders for 375 and 416 ones would be full loads of new technology

RE33 powder with decent length barrel. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems.
Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks that we
made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips that hold the
cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The inside of action
below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows feed lips to
spring and move and work ok.

Here are couple 24ga FHs break actions, a CBC with monoblocked
585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in.
The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga, and 585 Minie Bullets
are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.

Another matter---It is humbling for me to ask for help when
I ask guys on the net for help at times.But I really am in a bind.

That is truth, Our small income we had from our farms truck garden
business is no more, as my my knees are shot and can't hardly
walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition
got so bad she can't work.We both getting old.. So we finally quit that,
but were and are in debt. We need little extra money to try
to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities.

Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums
and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and
debt. Like 10-20 or so bucks each put into our paypal account as gifts.
And if you want to mail it, contact me to get you
my mailing address. The Paypal email is [email protected]

Best Regards- Ed

PS-- We really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but fairly fast.
Just a little from each to help. A quick boost so to speak.
We never made anything on the 12ga FH, 585, etc, work and
research and still don't.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Another action we found that isn't priced 3 grand

or more that will work great for our 585HE is the

Stiller bolt action that is made for Cheytac based

cases. Less than 1200 dollars. Compares in size

to the Montana PH actions we have put the 585 in.Ed

 

[Sling]

I've got 3 of those Stiller Tac 408 Cheytac actions for sale for $1000 + shipping.