Browning300
Well-Known Member
Got one yesterday at 301yd bang flop and about quarter sized exit and one last week at 323yd with tennis ball size exit.
53gr. V-Max Good for Coyotes?
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rdsii64
Well-Known Member
Coyotes may be hard to hunt but they sure as heck ain't hard to kill. A 53 grain vmax coming off a 22-250 will ruin a hide if you are not careful. You are not under gunned by any means
NorthernWhitetails
Well-Known Member
[ame]https://youtu.be/NsMzrg-9Q_snteresting[/ame] thread, having killed hundreds of coyotes with numerous 50gr bullets, ouf of .223, and 22-250's and 243s (Vmaxs in both the 250/243) I would have to say inside 300yds they kill well, however alot of how well they kill is where you hit them, and what area you live in. A little 22lb southern dog is ALOT different, than a 45lb northern dog, of course generally speaking if you double the bullet weight (similar BC) you should half the wind drift, vel being the same. So a 50gr bullet going 3000fps should have roughly double the wind drift as a 100gr bullet going the same velocity. Of course if you up the velocity on the lighter bullet than the TOF is shorter and that also can help the lighter bullet, I am wondering how practical a 53 gr bullet really is at 400/500 yds knowing you now have a couple of feet of hold off to hit the coyote? We can certainly do it via a Mildot reticule, but is holding TWO mil dots or more, when the coyote is standing so instead of aiming at his tail, you are actually aiming two feet out infront of his chest something you want to mess with everytime you want to shoot over 400yds in a light breeze?
I have a 12"/16" steel plate across the cove at my camp its 552yds to the plate, lots of guys can hit it when its flat calm on the lake, very few can hit it in a 10kt crosswind with 50gr bullets! Lots can still hit it with 100gr bullets
Something to think about....
I personaly think they can be very tough to kill sometimes, here is the link to a video showing one hit thru the side of the chest , down thru him and exiting out thru the back of his groin area, 87gr Vmax at 3100fps, basically end for ending him, see how far he goes!
[ame]https://youtu.be/NsMzrg-9Q_s[/ame]
I have a 12"/16" steel plate across the cove at my camp its 552yds to the plate, lots of guys can hit it when its flat calm on the lake, very few can hit it in a 10kt crosswind with 50gr bullets! Lots can still hit it with 100gr bullets
Something to think about....
I personaly think they can be very tough to kill sometimes, here is the link to a video showing one hit thru the side of the chest , down thru him and exiting out thru the back of his groin area, 87gr Vmax at 3100fps, basically end for ending him, see how far he goes!
[ame]https://youtu.be/NsMzrg-9Q_s[/ame]
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
Excellent post, that is exactly what I was referring to with our MI coyotes being hard to kill. Usually they can reach thick impenetrable stuff before they run out of room to run, unless you make a very good hit on them. Of course the wind also tends to blow constantly in winter and the coyotes never seem to want to pause for a shot either..... Its a tough business, at least it is in this northern climate... My kill ratio did go way up when I switched to 95gr Bergers in my 243 AI.
NorthernWhitetails
Well-Known Member
Now your talking...................... West Cliff! The Bergers are a whole different ballgame. This is the exact reason I HAD to get away from my old .223 toooooooo many run offs being made over my bait at exactly 300 yds, smaller coyotes 15/25 lbs hit correctly no problem,
Big X_wind and Big Dogs 35lb and up poorly hit, HUGE problem , animals running all over the place!
Same thing with my .243 out to 300 yds with a 70gr Varmageddon usually ok, but even it at is not as good for me as the 25/06 with the 90gr BlitzKings are at 3500fps. They all run out of gas at some point............... your little AI would be right at the heels of the 06 though....
Its just like watching all the outdoor shows on TV nowadays, and they are constantly showing someone shooting a monster moose or bull elk over a thousand yards away ???? They show the shot, and a hit,[you have no way of knowing how many times they launched one to try and dope the wind correctly] then 99% of the time; the footage is spliced to them walking up to it , Why because at that distance the big magnum is outta gas as well, most of the guns they are using would have WAY less than 1200 ft lbs of energy at 12/1500 yds........ some of Way less than 1000ft lbs .......... Here are some numbers , a 7mm Rem Mag shooting a 162gr bullet with a starting vel of 3100fps has slowed down to 1600fps at 1000yds and only has 1000 ft lbs of energy left ????? Come on who really shoots a 1000 lb animal with a gun that is hitting it with 6-800 ft lbs of energy??? This formula has gotten WOUNDED written all over it.
So most of the time either the animal staggers around wounded until they can get over there and finish it off, but showing that on TV isn't going to sell custom rifles or scopes with compensating dails on them................... hey but it looks good!!!! One shot kills all day long at 1300 yds with this rifle and this scope.................. yea right. However it still hits almost as hard as gramps old 38-40 does at a hundred !
Big X_wind and Big Dogs 35lb and up poorly hit, HUGE problem , animals running all over the place!
Same thing with my .243 out to 300 yds with a 70gr Varmageddon usually ok, but even it at is not as good for me as the 25/06 with the 90gr BlitzKings are at 3500fps. They all run out of gas at some point............... your little AI would be right at the heels of the 06 though....
Its just like watching all the outdoor shows on TV nowadays, and they are constantly showing someone shooting a monster moose or bull elk over a thousand yards away ???? They show the shot, and a hit,[you have no way of knowing how many times they launched one to try and dope the wind correctly] then 99% of the time; the footage is spliced to them walking up to it , Why because at that distance the big magnum is outta gas as well, most of the guns they are using would have WAY less than 1200 ft lbs of energy at 12/1500 yds........ some of Way less than 1000ft lbs .......... Here are some numbers , a 7mm Rem Mag shooting a 162gr bullet with a starting vel of 3100fps has slowed down to 1600fps at 1000yds and only has 1000 ft lbs of energy left ????? Come on who really shoots a 1000 lb animal with a gun that is hitting it with 6-800 ft lbs of energy??? This formula has gotten WOUNDED written all over it.
So most of the time either the animal staggers around wounded until they can get over there and finish it off, but showing that on TV isn't going to sell custom rifles or scopes with compensating dails on them................... hey but it looks good!!!! One shot kills all day long at 1300 yds with this rifle and this scope.................. yea right. However it still hits almost as hard as gramps old 38-40 does at a hundred !
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COBrad
Well-Known Member
Northern, have you done much long range shooting/hunting... 1K and over?
A 162 gr bullet from a 7mm is Not a long range bullet, and the reasons you point out make clear why. I use 180 gr Berger hunting VLD's in mine, launched at 2990fps. The G7 ballistic program that I use indicates 1961 fps and 1536 ft-lbs energy at 1K yds. IMO, just as important is a high sectional density and the momentum a long heavy bullet carries.
FWIW, here in Colorado, Parks and Wildlife stipulate a minimum 1000 ft lbs at 100 yds to be legal.
As to poor hits, long range shooting requires a high degree skill, won by mucho practice, and a lot of restraint in passing on questionable shots. I would like to believe the best of the TV long rangers practice what they preach and wait for good shots.
The bull I shot this year with the above referenced load was hit in the left shoulder and both lungs were destroyed. He still managed to stagger 75 yds down the hill, but that's what I expect a lung shot elk to do.
Shot distance was 1098 yds.
A 162 gr bullet from a 7mm is Not a long range bullet, and the reasons you point out make clear why. I use 180 gr Berger hunting VLD's in mine, launched at 2990fps. The G7 ballistic program that I use indicates 1961 fps and 1536 ft-lbs energy at 1K yds. IMO, just as important is a high sectional density and the momentum a long heavy bullet carries.
FWIW, here in Colorado, Parks and Wildlife stipulate a minimum 1000 ft lbs at 100 yds to be legal.
As to poor hits, long range shooting requires a high degree skill, won by mucho practice, and a lot of restraint in passing on questionable shots. I would like to believe the best of the TV long rangers practice what they preach and wait for good shots.
The bull I shot this year with the above referenced load was hit in the left shoulder and both lungs were destroyed. He still managed to stagger 75 yds down the hill, but that's what I expect a lung shot elk to do.
Shot distance was 1098 yds.
NorthernWhitetails
Well-Known Member
Brad,
Congrats on that long poke on the Elk, your probably right , and a thousand ft lbs must be ample if the Colorado dept of P&W says it is?
I generated my figures with Hornadys Calculator using a 162gr Amax that has a BC of .625 so probably that isn't much of a long range bullet?
Anyway good luck to ya.
Earle
Congrats on that long poke on the Elk, your probably right , and a thousand ft lbs must be ample if the Colorado dept of P&W says it is?
I generated my figures with Hornadys Calculator using a 162gr Amax that has a BC of .625 so probably that isn't much of a long range bullet?
Anyway good luck to ya.
Earle
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
I remember this was a good read when I was a teenager... And they were not taking 1000 yard shots then. But the message was clear all the same...
Browning300
Well-Known Member
How much different will the 53 perform than the 55 v-max is the 53 an entirely different bullet or is it basically just a 55 with a boattail? Reason I ask is Earlier in the winter shot 2 coyotes with 55s one at 620 from behind that hit the spine just above the tail and didnt penetrate needed a finishing shot and one at 629 that hit the base of the neck he ran bout 75yd. And died.
NorthernWhitetails
Well-Known Member
B300,
That is outradious shooting......... great work! Thats ma bell stuff right there! What sorta optics are you running?
That is outradious shooting......... great work! Thats ma bell stuff right there! What sorta optics are you running?
benchracer
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The main differences between the 53 VMAX and other bullets in its weight class are its flight characteristics and its shorter bearing surface, which can permit higher muzzle velocities. Like the 55's, it is still a varmint bullet and will exhibit similar terminal performance. I wouldn't expect bullets meant for prairie dogs to penetrate end-to-end on a 'yote.
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
I have hit a coyote at the base of the tail and blew apart about 10" of vertebrae and that was with a 95gr SST out of a 243 Win at about 130 yards. So the chances of a 53 or 55gr 224 doing better are low.
I guess I am just surprised with the enthusiasm for a ballistically poor 223 caliber bullet for coyotes on a long range forum. I think it is very common for people who start hunting coyotes to get an AR-15 and load it up with 55gr Vmax bullets since it is "cool" and badass and there are so many liberals making the "assault weapon" claims. Of course after a little while the hunter determines that it is not at all easy to connect with coyotes that are beyond 200 yards (unless you live somewhere with a perpetual calm). Then if you do connect with them, there is a high probability that they will run off and not be found. I certainly went through this myself and went up the ladder of higher and higher BC .224 bullets to the 75gr HPBT which was MUCH better than the 55gr Vmax both in terms of wind drift and actual killing power downrange. But the further factor, time of flight raises its ugly head when you cannot get the coyote to stop moving and in that case, launching 95gr Berger bullets out a 243 at 3200fps improves on that metric and of course all the other metrics (wind drift, retained energy, time of flight).
If someone just happens to always have is AR-15 with him at all times, then I guess you just make the best of what you have. But if someone wants to get into it starting fresh, I would advise going with the 243, or one of the 6.5's right off the bat. You can save yourself a lot of time, money and frustration. And kill more coyotes....
I guess I am just surprised with the enthusiasm for a ballistically poor 223 caliber bullet for coyotes on a long range forum. I think it is very common for people who start hunting coyotes to get an AR-15 and load it up with 55gr Vmax bullets since it is "cool" and badass and there are so many liberals making the "assault weapon" claims. Of course after a little while the hunter determines that it is not at all easy to connect with coyotes that are beyond 200 yards (unless you live somewhere with a perpetual calm). Then if you do connect with them, there is a high probability that they will run off and not be found. I certainly went through this myself and went up the ladder of higher and higher BC .224 bullets to the 75gr HPBT which was MUCH better than the 55gr Vmax both in terms of wind drift and actual killing power downrange. But the further factor, time of flight raises its ugly head when you cannot get the coyote to stop moving and in that case, launching 95gr Berger bullets out a 243 at 3200fps improves on that metric and of course all the other metrics (wind drift, retained energy, time of flight).
If someone just happens to always have is AR-15 with him at all times, then I guess you just make the best of what you have. But if someone wants to get into it starting fresh, I would advise going with the 243, or one of the 6.5's right off the bat. You can save yourself a lot of time, money and frustration. And kill more coyotes....
NorthernWhitetails
Well-Known Member
Very sound advise WC01, I had very similar experences to the one you have discribed,in the early days with a .223. Now hundreds of coyotes later., Its a .243 out calling in the field, used 87gr Vmax for quite a while now trying 70gr Armageddons, But at home the 25/06 over bait at nite, 90gr Sierra BlitzKings , perfection on long shots and poorly hit dogs. 60grs of RL25= 3475fps. That gets it done, no more dragging themselfs around, or the classic spinning and biting themselves we have all seen, just plain old fashioned flattens em! Problem solved.
Browning300
Well-Known Member
Northernwhitetails I am using a Burris fullfield on a savage predator 22-250 my only caveat with the fullfield is that the turrets cannot be reset to 0 after sightin. Both of those shots were in wind still conditions and the 629 still stands as my record. I agree with westcliff I believe the 6mm rules the longer range coyote hunting. I am already dreaming of a 6-284 or 6mmAI when the 22-250 barrel burns out but I only have about 950 Rounds down it so far so I think I still have aways to go. So I'm trying to find my best option till then.
