BigNate
Well-Known Member
Yep! This was one of several.
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45 ACP on Brown Bear.????
- Thread starter BillLarson
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Yep! This was one of several.
BigNate
Well-Known Member
One of the best 45ACP loads is from https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/45-ACP-P-250-Grn-Hard-Cast-Flat-Point
, these are where I started.
, these are where I started.
L.A.R. Manufacturing out of Jordan, UT built a super sized 1911 style pistol, called the Grizzly, back in the 90's. They offered several calibers, including 45 Win Mag. Winchester loaded 260gr that went like 1250 FPS. If making ur own reloads 230grainers could hit 1800FPS with a compressed load of 25gr v-N110. It had a 40,000 CUP rating. That delivered 1,650 ft lb energy. They made about 1,000 pistols per year, and they are nearly double the old 90"s pricing, of $1,200 bucks. Definetly a bear country sidearm.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Good looking ACP food for sure using the hardcasts. What I've found out is, good velocity with hardcasts seem to give the best penetration. The 200 grain Double Tap hardcasts give me the best penetration. The 230s are more accurate and real close in penetration. I've shot them both thru heavy fresh bones and the 200s out penetrated the 230s. There around 100 fps faster and plenty heavy but just not as accurate. Obviously accuracy trumps all when the penetration is adequate already. Like to see how well those 250s penetrate at 925 fps.
I have a fair amount of old, unfired 45 WinMag brass originally bought for Contender usage, but instead I stayed with 45 Colt+p and +p+. Also have about 450 of the old 9mm WinMag, but it never really lived up to my hopes and was exceeded by my old 9x23 loads.
Varmiter71
Well-Known Member
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VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
No doubt the 45 win mags are capable. Remember the firearm itself and the reliability of that gun is just as important. The 30 carbine cartridge is approaching 41 mag power also but again reliability and for me firepower is just as important. Having 15-20 rounds in a magazine sure gives confidence over 6-8. There are a lot of pistols that will out perform a 10mm. The heavy bullet and controllability of the pistol mean alot also. Lots of options for sure out there. Confidence in your ability to hit what your aiming at helps. If a big brown bear gets you in his sights, he's deadlier than that pistol your carrying and maybe faster than you can draw it. Semi autos are less dependable than big wheel guns but have more firepower and shoot faster and more accurate from less recoil. A few decisions to make on which to holster in bear country.
BigNate
Well-Known Member
"On paper" is a dangerous road to go down in my opinion.
These energy numbers are derived by a formula that favors velocity heavily. In practical application, mass is what lends to penetration and on this subject penetration is vitally important!! (See what I did there?)
Most of the time higher velocity leads to greater deformation and inversely affects penetration. By using a non-expanding bullet with greater mass, penetration is often greater than with higher velocity achieved by dropping mass.
The .45 Win Mag cartridge has great potential. I've never had the opportunity to shoot it, but would expect it to be controllable in the right handgun. If your LAR is reliable, and you can make rapid hits in succession, it may be the best compromise between the giant wheel gun and "weaker" auto cartridges.
I can say that few people can rip off a cylinder full of large bore full power loads with accuracy.
These energy numbers are derived by a formula that favors velocity heavily. In practical application, mass is what lends to penetration and on this subject penetration is vitally important!! (See what I did there?)
Most of the time higher velocity leads to greater deformation and inversely affects penetration. By using a non-expanding bullet with greater mass, penetration is often greater than with higher velocity achieved by dropping mass.
The .45 Win Mag cartridge has great potential. I've never had the opportunity to shoot it, but would expect it to be controllable in the right handgun. If your LAR is reliable, and you can make rapid hits in succession, it may be the best compromise between the giant wheel gun and "weaker" auto cartridges.
I can say that few people can rip off a cylinder full of large bore full power loads with accuracy.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. The 30 carbine is useless IMO for the intended purpose
The 475 Wildey, would shoot 250 grainers at a speed of 1,850 fps for 1,900 ft lb energy. Pistol was pretty easy to shoot well, seemed like a tiny artillery piece. Those rigs were a precision made chunk of stainless steel craftsmanship. They made them in 45 Win Mag also, Wish that outfit was still out there today.
If a guy was really sold on trying the 45 ACP rounds on a Big Bear, might want to try out the S&W Governor revolver. So, the first 2 rounds are the 2-1/2" 410 tear gas rounds, then a pair of 45ACP's in a moonclip, then the last 2 rounds in 45 Colt. Be a great field report.
I'm sure this was covered earlier in this thread.
Rowland. In a g41. It's a high capacity big beast killer.
I mite add,,, If ever charged, I fully expect the bear to be alive, perforated, and highly p/$$ed off when he gets in slobberin distance. At which point I'll still have a few of the 14 rounds left. Now, if you can manage to insert the muzzle into one of his hear holes, see holes, or tonsil cavity and get the trigger pressed,,,,,,,
The major problem with any high speed life or death situation is ones lack of ability to THINK under extreme duress.
Rowland. In a g41. It's a high capacity big beast killer.
I mite add,,, If ever charged, I fully expect the bear to be alive, perforated, and highly p/$$ed off when he gets in slobberin distance. At which point I'll still have a few of the 14 rounds left. Now, if you can manage to insert the muzzle into one of his hear holes, see holes, or tonsil cavity and get the trigger pressed,,,,,,,
The major problem with any high speed life or death situation is ones lack of ability to THINK under extreme duress.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
The Rowland would be my upgrade choice. I've shot one and it handles very nicely. If I had a G21, I'd definitely do it. I could easily convert my G20 to that but really think my 10mm set up how it is will get the job done unless the big guy upstairs has other plans for me.
Rowland does work well, but unless just interested to try one, I would not make the effort to switch from a 10mm. I thought about going Rowland when debating on the 45 Super, but the practicality of simply changing spring kits and adding buffers to my existing 1911's and still being able to run some 45acp was the better choice for me.
In this realm of routine carry for quick bear defense with a handgun, everything is a compromise. If intentionally hunting big bears with a handgun, now that changes the equation.
