45-70 bullets for elk

[Tac-O]

I will be on a Buffalo hunt next month. I would think a bullet that is good for a Buffalo would be good for a shoulder shot at least on an Elk or Moose. I bought quantity 150 of the 405 gr flat nose gas check Cast Performance bullet.
Do any of you have experience with that bullet?

I haven't shot any gas check hard cast, but I've been told by people on the castboolits forum that they can generally be pushed to about 1800fps max. After that, I think it tends to lead the bore.

 

[Nomosendero]

I will be loading up to 1800 or so, not that I need the velocity to harvest the animal, but to be a little flatter shooting out to 200 yds or so.

 

[Dean2]

I will be loading up to 1800 or so, not that I need the velocity to harvest the animal, but to be a little flatter shooting out to 200 yds or so.

400 fps makes next to dick all difference In the trajectory to 250 yards. Run it through a calculator and you will see what i mean. Shoot it at 1500 fps and figure out the drops every 25 yards to 300 yards. Trying to flatten a 45 70 trajectory with a 400 plus grain bullet is farting against thunder.

 

[Nomosendero]

I will look at that, I doubt the extra vel. hurts anything and I am not talking about a flat shooter but again I will look.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Tac-O]

400 fps makes next to dick all difference In the trajectory to 250 yards. Run it through a calculator and you will see what i mean. Shoot it at 1500 fps and figure out the drops every 25 yards to 300 yards. Trying to flatten a 45 70 trajectory with a 400 plus grain bullet is farting against thunder.

I've got a few of these 300gr Hornady HP and 325 FTX. Is there any muzzle velocity you'd load them at and feel comfortable using them on elk? Or should I just use them for practice and get some of those 350 round nose? And have you found much difference in penetration between the 350 round nose and flat point?

 

[Dean2]

I've got a few of these 300gr Hornady HP and 325 FTX. Is there any muzzle velocity you'd load them at and feel comfortable using them on elk? Or should I just use them for practice and get some of those 350 round nose? And have you found much difference in penetration between the 350 round nose and flat point?

Hard cast, soft cast or pretty much any jacketed bullet except the FTX run great at around 1500 fps. Trying to run them faster just beats the snot out of the shooter, it doesn't penetrate, shoot enough flatter to matter or kill any better. The modern fascination with velocity is WAY misplaced on 45+ caliber rounds.

Like I said earlier, the 300 grain will work on Elk, the FTX I would not use on anything but deer. Given a choice however, I would pick the 350 Hornady for everything from deer to elk or moose.

 

[Tac-O]

Thanks! I'd somehow missed some of that earlier.

 

[budlight]

I haven't shot any gas check hard cast, but I've been told by people on the castboolits forum that they can generally be pushed to about 1800fps max. After that, I think it tends to lead the bore.

I have bought and made my own cast bullets. You have to think outside the box. I worked for many years on 24 hour road racing cars. To make effective heat barriers science has come up with all kinds of coatings.

So I reasoned that if leading is causes by the hot gasses vaporizing the tail end of the bullet why not make coated lead bullets? Ceramic 2000 degree exhaust header paint is pretty tuff stuff. So I first started with just doing the ends with a thick coat and shooting into sand embankments to recover the rounds. 405 gr chronoed at over 2300 fps. The powder dulled the once shiny silver coating, but it was still intact. Later on we start bulk powder coating the complete bullets. I don't struggle to clean out the lead anymore.

I coat all my bullets for my 357 also

 

[Ua26fitter]

400 fps makes next to dick all difference In the trajectory to 250 yards. Run it through a calculator and you will see what i mean. Shoot it at 1500 fps and figure out the drops every 25 yards to 300 yards. Trying to flatten a 45 70 trajectory with a 400 plus grain bullet is farting against thunder.

Interesting. How much does your 400 grain drop at 250 with a 100 yard zero?
My 250 Shock Hammer at 2600 fps falls 13.1" at 250. I've never compared it to big heavy lead because I've never shot lead.

Kris

 

[budlight]

Hard cast, soft cast or pretty much any jacketed bullet except the FTX run great at around 1500 fps. Trying to run them faster just beats the snot out of the shooter,

That's funny! I never considered a 45-70 to be a powerful rifle. I grew up shooting a 12 gauge semi auto. Like when I was 10 or 11 and not even 85 pounds. It did have a thick rubber butt cushion. But when I got older high powered rifles were nothing.

Just last month I went to visit an old friend and he said let's go out back and shoot my new pistol. His new bear gun. 45-70 magnum research pistol. Since he knew I was coming he brought out his best ammo, "Buffalo Bore 405 gr" Without a doubt that short barrel doesn't get you the 2000 fps listed on the box, but it was kinda fun to shoot.

It's probably a good griz gun!

 

[Dean2]

Interesting. How much does your 400 grain drop at 250 with a 100 yard zero?
My 250 Shock Hammer at 2600 fps falls 13.1" at 250. I've never compared it to big heavy lead because I've never shot lead.

Kris

If you want fast and flat, lighter and faster bullets are always the answer. That is not what the 45-70 is designed for. It kills great because it puts large holes deep through game. A 350 Grain Hornady RN at 1500 FPS with a 100 yard zero drops, 22 at 200 and 44 inches at 250. At 1900 fps it drops 13.5 at 200 and 28 at 250. If you are trying to use them for longer distance, then yes, to a degree speed will flatten them out a bit but at either speed it isn't just a hold on fur proposition,. You need to know the trajectory to hit and kill things cleanly over 150 yards. With the big heavy bullets it is about knowing the trajectory and using it effectively,

 

[Tac-O]

That's funny! I never considered a 45-70 to be a powerful rifle. I grew up shooting a 12 gauge semi auto. Like when I was 10 or 11 and not even 85 pounds. It did have a thick rubber butt cushion. But when I got older high powered rifles were nothing.

Just last month I went to visit an old friend and he said let's go out back and shoot my new pistol. His new bear gun. 45-70 magnum research pistol. Since he knew I was coming he brought out his best ammo, "Buffalo Bore 405 gr" Without a doubt that short barrel doesn't get you the 2000 fps listed on the box, but it was kinda fun to shoot.

It's probably a good griz gun!

Same here. Grew up hunting with a 12ga Remington 1100 as a kid shooting light field hybred exp. Those heavy slugs packed a huge punch on deer. I wish they were still available. That gun has a plastic butt too! My 30-06 with a sims is a piece of cake in comparison.

Now, shooting a metal crescent butt plate 45-90 with heavy smokeless loads... Yes that does hurt a little my more than my 12ga

 

[Radman]

I want to take my 45-70 1886 elk hunting next year and trying to find a good bullet to reload. I have shot pigs and whitetails with it with several bullets, and I'm not very happy with any of them so far. I tried 2 different 405g cast lead at reduced velocity. These punch half inch holes straight through with min to no blood trail. Other folks really like cast, maybe they'd expand more on an elk?? This year I switched to 300g Hornady hollow point at full power, which is much flatter shooting. I have seen very few deer act like they'd been electrocuted and expire so dramatically/quickly from a gunshot, but on cleaning, there was no exit wound. Entry was on center broadside at the back edge of the shoulder. I recovered fragments as far as the middle neck area. Can anyone recommend a bullet that acts like the Barnes ttsx in my 338? I want good penetration but also some expansion and a bloodtrail. I just bought 3 boxes of Barnes 300g TSX FB, which have a hollow point big enough to park my truck in. I'm not sure these will hold together or are even intended for heavy game.

Also, on searching this topic, I did find a couple similar threads from years back, mostly recommending the two kinds of bullets I've already tried. Several recommend Speer, but I haven't seen any in stock since I got the gun.

About all I have shot is the factory 325 Hornady loads. They expand to the diameter of close to a half-dollar coin. Occasionally the lead & the jacket separate into 2 separate & distinct pieces. Very accurate ammo. I've put 3 through the same, ragged hole at 100 yards on 2 occasions.
No experience retrieving the Buffalo Bore but they sure pack a wallop. (Approaching 2 tons of muzzle energy)
Either bullet bucks the wind extremely well IMO.
I know you have enough gun if you have enough range.

 

[purpledragon]

About all I have shot is the factory 325 Hornady loads. They expand to the diameter of close to a half-dollar coin. Occasionally the lead & the jacket separate into 2 separate & distinct pieces. Very accurate ammo. I've put 3 through the same, ragged hole at 100 yards on 2 occasions.
No experience retrieving the Buffalo Bore but they sure pack a wallop. (Approaching 2 tons of muzzle energy)
Either bullet bucks the wind extremely well IMO.
I know you have enough gun if you have enough range.

Same here I find the FTX to be VERY accurate bullet, just not as tough a bullet as I'd hoped it would be....