Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
Tag
45-70 bullets for elk
- Thread starter wild_musk
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I have shot every 45 caliber jacketed bullet sold in Canada, and a whole wack of cast, through a 45-70. For accuracy, penetration and performance a 350 Grain Hornady Round nose at 1500-1600 FPS is my go to and all time favourite. It will go length wise through bear, through both shoulders of a Moose and long quartering through Elk. It expands well at the lower velocities and leaves a good exit and blood trail. More speed just kicks you harder, it doesn't kill or penetrate any better. I have posted this before but it is worth seeing.
The effect of speed on incapacitation is typically called Hydrostatic shock. That effect does not happen with projectiles trraveling less than 2500 FPS. It is why Roy Weatherby built the beast of cartridge that is the 460 Weatherby Magnum. I own one in a left hand action MKV. It produces awesome recoil, it is the only rifle I own that has a brake on it. Despite all the roaring, flame and drama it does not kill any faster than my 45-70 and I have shot a lot of bears with both. I have also shot bears with a 45-70 loaded from1100 FPS to 2000. I can tell you from experience the sweat spot is 1400-1500 fps for quick kills, reasonably flat trajectory, at least by 45-70 standards, and quick second shot recovery. My favourite load is a Hornady 350 grain RN over 3031 powder at 1500 fps.
Any suggestions on loads/velocities for the Hornady 300gr HP or 325gr flex tip? I have both of those and haven't seen the 350 round nose in a long time.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Here you go:
Hornady 45cal 350gr RN #4502
Product Information Caliber: 45cal Bullet Diameter: 0.458” Bullet Weight: 350 Grains OAL: 0.935" Bullet Style: Interlock Round Nose Flat Base G1 BC: 0.189 Part Number:4502 Quantity: 50
www.bluecollarreloading.com
I should have clarified a little more above. When I was younger I learned from someone that was into the swift, Ackley and other wildcats and thought everything had to go Mach 3 so I too sprayed slot of lead around when I first started my quest with the big slow hammers of yesterday. When I'm shooting 405's I don't load them much past normal 45-70 loads there is no need to do so. The Meplat and the weight of the bullet does the work. I do think the gas checks keep the barrel cleaner but that is just my thoughts. Some say gas checks are harder on the barrel? I do run the jacketed a bit faster as mentioned especially when shooting bullets designed for the 458 win in my single shots There is so much information out there on loads, bullets, action strength, intended application. Not to mention it been around for better than a 100 years so it has seen lots testing and many improvements with components. I just like the old work horse and shooting it is fun and it works when hunting anything in North America that I've taken.
I have used the 300 HP on a lot of deer, some bears and two Moose. On larger game I would keep them to 1400 FPS or less. They expand REALLY well, and they penetrate pretty good. On the two moose, I hit them a total of 2 on one and a single shot on the other; the 300 grain bullet went through both moose broad side but I didn't hit the shoulder with those two shots. The moose I hit twice, one of the bullets did go through one shoulder and it landed on the hide on the off side. The Bears. about 50% exited.
For large game, the Flex tip is FAR too fragile, the 300 Hornady works as long as you don't over drive it if you can't get the 350 but the 350 is a far better choice. Let us know how you make out.
Far Right is the 300 grain from the moose. The middle one is a 350 Grain that went length wise through a Moose and cauglt on the hide on the off rear quarter. Far left is a 300 from a deer, it was moving abut 2100 fps at the muzzle.
Ua26fitter
Well-Known Member
That's the thing about a solid copper. Crank it up and get as much speed as possible. It's not about penatrating farther. They will all do that fine at slower speed due to their weight. But getting more velocity will add more range and shoot flatter. A solid won't give you problems with blowing up because you went to fast.
Kris
Kris
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
I will be on a Buffalo hunt next month. I would think a bullet that is good for a Buffalo would be good for a shoulder shot at least on an Elk or Moose. I bought quantity 150 of the 405 gr flat nose gas check Cast Performance bullet.
Do any of you have experience with that bullet?
wild_musk
Well-Known Member
No sir, but I agree with the sentiment. Most of my problems have been due to using inappropriate velocities for the type of bullet and lack of experience with cast in general. I also expected that hornady hp to act similar to an SST or SGK, but it did not. I found the Barnes TSXs, but after being surprised so many times, I just wanted to ask around here before I maybe had to learn the hard way again.
Cast Bullets penetrate great, but most are relatively hard and do not expand at all. Even dead soft lead doesn't expand much unless it has a flat-hollow metplat. Driving them above 1600 FPs has the same problems as over driving the rest in that they actually penetrate less the faster they go. See Garret's comments above. Thousands of Bison died from cast bullets, if you are trying for a traditional hunt they will do the job. Personally, I prefer Jacketed bullets as they do expand and penetrate just as well, see pictures above.
purpledragon
Well-Known Member
Here is a cast that'll git r done.....A good friend of mine many yrs ago gave me some of these, rest his soul. When his wife decided to sell all his stuff, I wasn't contacted, I wanted the mold for these Oh So Bad....Thinking of having one of the mold makers do one for me. Like you see it, it's 560grs with wheelweight lead. The big flat Meplat makes it a terribly destructive killer.... I call them my Mastodon Killers....
purpledragon
Well-Known Member
An Elk would not stand a chance with these, I've taken some really big deer(for here) and some big hogs. Knocks um down like hit by a log truck. Shot a big hog probably 400lbs on a river bank one time, knock him down and spun him like a top on the hard mud bank....
I am the proud owner of a Barnes American ,458. 26 inch barrel used on everything in alaska and africa. I experimented with barnes X's in 300 350, 405. Later on at a Safari International meet I talked to the barnes people and I bought some boxes of 450 X bullets which are very well suited to my 26 inch 458 win mag.
I've never recovered an X bullet or even a fragment of an x bullet. They make nasty looking exits. I have recovered 405's shot into a wet sandy embankment at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. It peeled way back at 100 and I had to dig for it.
This is a one of the 300 yard shots barnes american rifle with 405 gr Barnes X bullet
Here is a cast that'll git r done.....A good friend of mine many yrs ago gave me some of these, rest his soul. When his wife decided to sell all his stuff, I wasn't contacted, I wanted the mold for these Oh So Bad....Thinking of having one of the mold makers do one for me. Like you see it, it's 560grs with wheelweight lead. The big flat Meplat makes it a terribly destructive killer.... I call them my Mastodon Killers....
You definitely don't want to shoot those with a metal crescent but plate…
Ouch!!!!
Yes, and unless seated really deep in the case, they won't cycle through a Marlin lever. Would work good on the single shots though.
