45-70, 45-90, or 450 Marlin?

[Shtmagnet]

I love my 45-70s. Out of all the guns and various calibers, the 45-70 really has my attention. I have a Marlin Guide gun, that I use for boar hunting with the Hornady 325 FTX factory loads, and two new guns. Recently purchased a Ruger No.1 and a Winchester 1885. I have just finished going through the Ruger and put in a Jard trigger. I have been developing some loads using Hornady 325s, 300gr and 405gr cast bullets. The Hornadys shot fine but the cast did not. I reloaded a bunch more this weekend and hope to figure out how to get the cast to shoot well as they are readily available and a lot cheaper. Once I get the loads for the Ruger figured out I will begin working with the 1885. The 1885 is sure a beautiful gun and should be a lot of fun shooting.

 

[Alibiiv]

I have been shooting a 45-70 since about 1982. Brass life is excellent with at least 20 shots per case. Cases usually split from crimping . But if you anneal the case mouth every 10 shots or so they will last longer. I am primarily a cast bullet shooter casting my own bullets. A RCBS mold 405 gr cast bullet at 1500 to 1600 fps is about all the recoil I care to endure. My main rifle is a Marlin JM XLR stainless with 24" bbl. It is very capable of higher velocity if you can handle the recoil which can become brutal. I would think on that before selecting a higher velocity 45 cal rifle. I also cast & shoot 300 & 350gr bullets which can be driven to higher velocity with lower recoil. Over all the 400gr class of bullet is my favorite. The 45-70 has the advantage of much easier to acquire brass. Starline usually haveing it available most of the time. All things considered the 45-70 would for sure be my first choice by a long ways.

Might want to take a look at the Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 45-70. Brownells sells them for around $20. It is not a roll crimp die, there actually is a collet inside of the die that swages the sides of the case mouth into the cannular groove. I've ruined more 45-70 brass trying to roll crimp the brass than anything. I read about this die, figured of $20 how could I go wrong, once I used it I've bought more of them for the various cartridges that I load for. These dies are cartridge specific, easy to set up, and once set they are forgiving on case-overall-length unlike a roll crimp die. I guarantee if you buy one you will never part with it. Here is a video on them, the first die that is shown in the video is the one that I use for my 45-70s, and yes I anneal every 10 rounds and get at "least" 20 reloads on my brass.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWnw0sTBO8w

 

[budlight]

Have you considered the 45 long colt or 44 mags. I reload long colt for my sons lever to way above the the old low pressure pistol rounds. Good medicine for Mr. black bear. Everything from 200 to 300 grain

Henry Big Boy 20 inch.

 

[Polizei45]

I have also been shooting the 45-70 for lots of years. My first one was a Ruger No 3. That one was a bear to shoot until I restocked it and started hand loading for it. I have had a C Sharps 45-70 and now a Shiloh Sharps 45-70. They both shoot very well. Never shot black powder with either one. If you go to YouTube and watch some of the Sharps guys and 45-70 shooters are shooting out to some long distances. I just picked up a Henry 45-70 side gate to play around with. You can still find them at reasonable prices. What I like about the Henry is you can unload the very easy by take the magazine tube out rather then ejecting the rounds. It might be awhile before we start to see some Marlins from Ruger. As other have said the availability of components and ammo for the 45-70 is huge.

 

[epoletna]

Dean2:

If I may ask, where do you get brass for your 50-110? The reason I ask is that I have a 50-100-450 (Win 1886) and the only brass I have found is .348 Win. brass. It does not blow out evenly, and I'd prefer something that looks better when it is blown out.

 

[Stgraves260]

Have owned many 45-70s. Have also owned 45-90, 50-90 and 50-110 plus some double rifles in BP in 8 and 4 gauge. If you are going to shoot smokeless powder go with the 45-70. Lots of guns, lots of brass, lots of loaded ammo. The 45-70 with 3031 and a Hornady 350 RN is my all time favourite bear control round. Loaded to 1600 FPS it will penetrate bear or moose length wise 100% of the time. You can load the 45-70 much hotter than that but trust me, all they do is kick harder, they certainly don't kill any better, and they slow recovery for second shot. I won't say how many bears I shot testing all kinds of different cartridges as well as various bullet, speed combos in the 45-70 because no one who doesn't know me would believe it but the sample is definitely statistically valid.

If you are going to shoot black powder a lever is a real pain in the butt to clean and you can't just leave them not cleaned as black powder attracts moisture and will rust you out in a hurry. If you want to shoot BP I would look at the 50-110 as you don't gain anything going 45-70 to 45-90 with BP unless you shoot cast over 500 grains.

There is a very good reason the 45-70 is still going strong after nearly 150 years and the rest are relegated to enthusiast users status.

45-70 is awesome. Then I shot a 444 Marlin. You should give that a try if you haven't all ready. To me the 444 feeds much better than the 45-70. The extra 500ish FPS and the extra 1,000 ish ft-lbs of kinetic energy is crazy. How it kicks less than a 45-70 I will never know. My shoulder kills me after shooting the 45-70 and like you said it's very hard to prepare yourself for a follow up shot if you need it. The 444 kicks me don't get me wrong. It just feels more like a hard push than a sharp kick. The feeding alone makes me lean towards the 444 Marlin. I thank everyone should try it just for the experience. I think Marlin and Remington did very well on developing this round.

 

[Radman]

With reloading components being hard to get go with the 45/70. You will find ammo easier and if you do reload for it you will have all the power you can handle. Factory loads come in +P and trust me if you dont shoot them in a heavy rifle they will kick your butt. I have a 1895 stainless with synthetic stock and 18" barrel. It is light, it is handy, but with +P loads it hurts to shoot. I had a black and blue mark 4" long on my bicep for 2 weeks after my last outing with the +P loads. I am 6'2" and weigh 245.

Yeah......ain't it great?

 

[thwatson2]

buy the 45-90. If you find something you like and want and can afford it, get it. The 45-70 is more versatile and with smokeless makes the most sense. But I shoot my 45-90 and 45-110 with smokeless on occasion (when I get lazy) they both do fine with smokeless. Of course the 90 and 110 shine with black powder. I shoot black powder out of my 86 and it's just fun, but be prepared to spend lots of time cleaning.

 

[Shtmagnet]

Just traded a 45-70 cowboy to Cabelas Boise. Picked up a double rifle in 45-70 on the trade. Call Boise since the gun is in excellent condition.

Sold already. I just called. Bummer but did save me some precious gun cash.

 

[Alibiiv]

To answer part of your question, I think that $1000 for a 2006 1895 Marlin is a lot of money. These rifles have gone up in price, however not that much unless this rifle were a "vintage" 1895 I wouldn't buy it for a $1000, "vintage-mint" I would probably go $1200 +-. The ammo itself will probably sell for $500 a box on Gun Broker, but not the rifle!!! Also I believe that Remington took the Marlin factory over in 2003 (?) and Remington lowered the standard on their quality control. It would be good if you had stated what the rifle is going to be used for, but......... I started shooting an 1895 Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 around 4 years ago. lt was a "JM" stamped 2002 vintage gun with an 18 inch (?) compensated barrel. I fired it once at the range, **** near rattled the fillings out of my back teeth, took it home and tamed it down with a "KickEez recoil pad. That rifle was a nice rifle, however I wanted a vintage on, finally found one of Guns International for around $750. That gun was early vintage, came with the 1/2 magazine and a 22 inch barrel. The bluing was good so I left that alone and refinished the stock on the rifle. Both of these rifles were extremely accurate and would shoot better than I could shoot one. I black bear hunt so my shots are not that far of a distance, my rifle is sighted in at 50 yards to hit point of aim. With that said what I have found is that point of impact with a 300 grain bullet, sighted point of aim at 50 yards, will hit point of aim at 100 yards, and from 100 yards to a 200 yard target the bullet will strike 11 inches below point of aim at 200 yards. I don't know about the 45-90 or the 45-100, what I can state is that I cannot imagine needing anything larger than a 45-70 for any game hunted in the U.S.. I shot my first black bear this past season using the 45-70, using a Barnes 300, flat based TSX bullet; the bullet is a hollow-point bullet that looks like a 5 gallon pail sitting on top of the casing. The shot was around 60 yards, broad side shot just behind the shoulder an out the opposite side. The performance of that cartridge and that bullet was total carnage on that bear. I usually hunt black bear with a 35 Whelen with the 225 grain Barnes TSX, the 45-70 has me questioning whether I ought to be taking the 1895 Marlin out instead. I've attached a photo of the exit hole on that last bear that I took with the 45-70, take note of my hand compared to the exit hole.

 

[Charles Keethler]

Take a good look at my avatar this is the Buff. I shot at about 125 yds. one shot from my 24' Begara 45-70 barrel on a Encore . 3 steps DRT Buffalo Bore load 405 jacketed bullet 2000 fps muzzle. also have a Marlin in 450 Marlin shoots 350 gr. but put a Lemsaver pat on it.

 

[jpndave]

Might want to take a look at the Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 45-70. Brownells sells them for around $20. It is not a roll crimp die, there actually is a collet inside of the die that swages the sides of the case mouth into the cannular groove. I've ruined more 45-70 brass trying to roll crimp the brass than anything. I read about this die, figured of $20 how could I go wrong, once I used it I've bought more of them for the various cartridges that I load for. These dies are cartridge specific, easy to set up, and once set they are forgiving on case-overall-length unlike a roll crimp die. I guarantee if you buy one you will never part with it. Here is a video on them, the first die that is shown in the video is the one that I use for my 45-70s, and yes I anneal every 10 rounds and get at "least" 20 reloads on my brass.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWnw0sTBO8w

This is spot on. I use these crimping dies on my 45-70 and all my revolver cartridges (38, 357, 44, etc.) once you have tried them you will never go back. If it needs a crimp and doesn't headspace there, this crimp is the only way to go.

 

[jpndave]

Mic McPherson's book on leverguns has a lot of very good information along these lines.

 

[Shtmagnet]

I shot a 400lb. boar hog at 50' with a 325gr. Hornady FTX. Perfect shot behind the shoulder. He just stood there and stared at me. Finally turned and gave me the other shoulder. Hit him again and he jut stood there. Finally after 20 minutes, he fell over. Found both bullets and they completely came apart on the boars shield. I switched to 405gr. after that experience. Those big pigs can be tough.