45-70, 45-90, or 450 Marlin?

[Dean2]

45-70 is awesome. Then I shot a 444 Marlin. You should give that a try if you haven't all ready. To me the 444 feeds much better than the 45-70. The extra 500ish FPS and the extra 1,000 ish ft-lbs of kinetic energy is crazy. How it kicks less than a 45-70 I will never know. My shoulder kills me after shooting the 45-70 and like you said it's very hard to prepare yourself for a follow up shot if you need it. The 444 kicks me don't get me wrong. It just feels more like a hard push than a sharp kick. The feeding alone makes me lean towards the 444 Marlin. I thank everyone should try it just for the experience. I think Marlin and Remington did very well on developing this round.

My partner used a 444 for many years when we were doing Bear control. It was a very effective cartridge for the purpose. He liked it because he could shoot 410 shells out of it for grouse and rabbits. I just loaded shot into the 45-70 case. With respect to recoil, I never found the recoil of the 45-70 a problem. If you loaded 350 or 400 grain bullets at 1300-1600 fps they don't kick bad at all, about the same as the 444 Marlin Dave had using his prefer 265 grain bullets. If you push that same 350 to 2200 fps the recoil gets really noticable and like I said before, they don't penetrate or kill any better and the lighter loads work even in trapdoor and Springfield guns. With big bores it isn't hydrostatic shock it is the hole that kills. It was very easy to be back on for the second shot, with practice you get so you are levering in the second round as the gun is recoiling and magnaporting the barrel really reduced the muzzle jump. Personally I liked the heavier bullets, especially in cast but realistically there was no real difference in how well the 45-70 vs the 444 killed.

 

[Tac-O]

Sold already. I just called. Bummer but did save me some precious gun cash.

Dang that was fast!

 

[Tac-O]

I guess I should have stated my intention with the gun!

I've been wanting a keeper "pretty" gun that is also useful. I'd be using this for elk where I don't plan to go very far. I'll likely have a buffalo hunt opportunity this year or next, and then I'd be using it for any larger than elk hunting in the future. I'd be shooting it for fun every once in awhile, but probably not more than once or twice a month I would guess. I also tend to like the oddball stuff. Hence having my 30-06 rebarreled to a 30-284 and thinking I might prefer a 45-90 over 45-70, just to be different. And I really like the full length magazine tube and octagonal barrel and case hardened colors. So that's why that 1886 45-90 I found is really stuck in my thoughts. It's a heavy one though, at 9.75lbs. And BP is way easier to find on a regular basis than some smokeless powders used for the 45-70.

I don't want to scope it, so I'd say my max for shots would be 200 or possibly 300 if I practice alot but that's probably a stretch.

There's some good info in this thread. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[CCAguns]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

I love my 45-90. It was rechambered on a beautiful Browning B-78, an 1885 Winchester replica. That said, increased barrel length will give you higher velocities, but, with smokeless powder, don't expect gains over the 45-70. I would definitely recommend you get a 45-70. It has returned to the forefront over the last ten years and ammo, cases, bullets, etc. are much more available than the others. It has more nostalgia to it and it will definitely do whatever you need!

 

[Shtmagnet]

This one was over 700 lbs. it is the only thing I miss about living in the Napa Valley.

 

[tooth doc]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

Buy it!

 

[tooth doc]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

Buy it, you will never regret a beauty like this. Even if you cant get better performance than 45.70.

 

[tooth doc]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

All i hear is this is newer, more efficient, but if you are like me, a beautiful original 86 is a thing of beauty! The caliber here is not the most important, not to me. You can load your 45.90 to 45.70 level. If all you want is any lever gun with the best power, buy a marlin 1895 or new browning. They are all gr8 guns, but there is something special about an original 86.

 

[Tac-O]

Buy it, you will never regret a beauty like this. Even if you cant get better performance than 45.70.

Haha those were my thoughts

 

[Tac-O]

All i hear is this is newer, more efficient, but if you are like me, a beautiful original 86 is a thing of beauty! The caliber here is not the most important, not to me. You can load your 45.90 to 45.70 level. If all you want is any lever gun with the best power, buy a marlin 1895 or new browning. They are all gr8 guns, but there is something special about an original 86.

I don't think it counts as original... I believe it is a new manufacture within the last 5 years. But it would still be one I'd pass to my children!

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

Ah! I didn't think about Alaska. Man... A dozen bears a night... That'd make a lot of bear oil, so I hope you got to take home some of them!

That's good to k ow on the 45-90. There's a Winchester 45-90 case hardened 1886 I found at a local store that is absolutely beautiful. Seeing as I can't find any 1886 45-70 for sale online at less than $1700, I figured a this new 45-90 for $1500 would be great seeing as I could shoot either round.

Alberta is not Alaska

 

[5gauss]

45.70 brass everywhere and bullets. My Marlin Guide gun shot single hole at 100 with my handloads. Far from a long range gun but great in brush in Griz country

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

I shoot a Browning High Wall in 45-70 for "primitive" season hunting in Louisiana. [Single shot, exposed hammer and >35 cal rule.] There is nothing primitive about the 45-70 shooting a 400g bullet with 55g of Varget at 1844fps.

Ouch. My shoulder got black and blue JUST READING THAT.

 

[Dean2]

45.70 brass everywhere and bullets. My Marlin Guide gun shot single hole at 100 with my handloads. Far from a long range gun but great in brush in Griz country

Mine always have too, until I pulled the trigger the second time. Mind you if you look at the targets I posted earlier I guess you could call those single holes.