4350 Powders

[Mike Matteson]

No, my point is if you dont use stable powders in hunting rifles especially long range you very well could have some bad results.

That the way I see it. It's a thing to deal with all year long. SD of 20+fps variance is not suitable for long range shooting (Bryan Litz). So you really to know bullet velocity in all type of weather.

 

[Glenn Tullius]

A common theme for Hammers are the faster you go is more accurate. That came from Steve, so I did, and guess what? 85 grainers out of my 6.5 CM shoot 1/2" at 3455fps. Drew my Coues deer tag last week, good to go!

 

[QuietTexan]

All this made me wonder, if your ES/SD are both single digits at NTP (Normal Temperature and Pressure - 20 °C / 68 °F and an absolute pressure of 1 atm / 14.696 psi / 101.325 kPa), will your ES/SD still be single digits at 32°F, 12 psia? If so, then I don't care what the delta MV/°F is, all I care about is the drop I have recorded.

Not exact because the atmospherics didn't change, but Cal did specifically mention the SD of his loads in this personal temp stability test:

Powder Temp Stability: Hodgdon Extreme vs. IMR Enduron

The goal of this field test was to quantify the temperature stability of the popular Hodgdon H4350 a...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Huntfly]

Likewise I started at age 14, (now 73) and used IMR 4831 in my 300 H & H Mag. for years. Move up to a 25/06 in my 20's and change to MRP powder for that rifle. I also got a 220 swift in my 20's and use IMR 4064, and still do. In 2000 I was developing a load for my 308 Norma Mag using IMR 4350, & 4831. Push a primer out of the case. Load was hot and develop in the winter time. in 50 to 60 degree weather. when into summer and the temperature had climb up by 50+ deg. So I stop use IMR powder in most cases. Moved onto H4350 and stayed there. I do use W760 and I see now it's can be trouble with temp. That load was develop in the summer time, so heat doesn't create a problem, but I also hunt in cold weather. So I will get a chance to see how much it's effected in the winter time.
Great to see another long time reloader.

I made a contribution to BHA and will soon receive a 6.5 x 300 vanguard weatherby. I have been trying to assemble knowledge, bullets, brass, dies, powder. You know the drill. I found some US 869 as it is recommended and bought a pound. This powder is heat sensitive and best performs at near max. Imr 8133 is near impossible to fine and maybe a better choice. My goal with this rifle is to come up with a consistent, under one inch 3 shot rifle with the the least amount of range time. I have two bullets 130 and 140 grain Hornadys ELDX. All I could find at the time. My choice would be Nosler partitions which shoot well with 869 but good luck finding them. I knew nothing of the Hammers, talked about on this forum, until weeks ago. Very interesting.

I have never had any reloading problems, don't want to start now.

 

[Fedwell]

I made a contribution to BHA and will soon receive a 6.5 x 300 vanguard weatherby. I have been trying to assemble knowledge, bullets, brass, dies, powder. You know the drill. I found some US 869 as it is recommended and bought a pound. This powder is heat sensitive and best performs at near max. Imr 8133 is near impossible to fine and maybe a better choice. My goal with this rifle is to come up with a consistent, under one inch 3 shot rifle with the the least amount of range time. I have two bullets 130 and 140 grain Hornadys ELDX. All I could find at the time. My choice would be Nosler partitions which shoot well with 869 but good luck finding them. I knew nothing of the Hammers, talked about on this forum, until weeks ago. Very interesting.

I have never had any reloading problems, don't want to start now.

127gr. Barnes LRX over 93gr. us869 That is the ONLY load i shoot in mine.

 

[Huntfly]

If you live in an area and hunt in an area where temperature extremes during hunting season you'd be a fool you ignore temperature sensitivity, in my opinion. The temperature in South Dakota could be in the upper 80's or 40 some below and I hunted at both extremes. It's not just about accuracy! It is also about sky rocketing pressures in high temperatures. Some powders are quite temperature sensitive, in particular, the early WW ball powders. I have had issues with 785, 760 and with 748. Hodgdon has some identical ball powders as the WW ball powders. Years ago I had a WW785 load in my 300 Win Mag that was quite accurate during testing and when I took it out the temperature was close to 100. The case froze in the chamber, I had to take it back to the shop to get the bolt open and the case out. That could have been a ruined hunt. In a poorer action it could have meant a lost eye - I use shooting glasses ever since that incident. WW760 and WW748 are as bad, in my opinion.
But IMR4350 is not too bad as far as temperature sensitivity, at least I've not noticed it. I have IMR4350, H4350, AA4350 and IMR4451 on hand. Of those, if I were starting out with one powder, I'd probably go with IMR4451, or perhaps H4350. Having said that I've used IMR4350 since the early 60's without a problem. I still use it. I have not played with AA4350 to have an opinion..

I was a rep for 25 years, reped Accurate. The only beef I have with accurate 4350 is it leaves alot of residue in the barrel. It worked well just a little dirty.

 

[P7M13]

Not exact because the atmospherics didn't change, but Cal did specifically mention the SD of his loads in this personal temp stability test:

Powder Temp Stability: Hodgdon Extreme vs. IMR Enduron

The goal of this field test was to quantify the temperature stability of the popular Hodgdon H4350 a...

precisionrifleblog.com

I read that article some time ago, and pondered - if you keep your loaded ammo in a stable temperature zone like an ammo pouch in the groin area, under your clothes, will you achieve temperature stability because all the rounds are starting from the same temperature?
Reminds me of playing football in grade school and high school, sticking our hands in our knickers at the huddle to keep them from freezing.

 

[Sage70]

I started reloading in 1965 and through 2013 I only used IMR 4350, IMR 4831 and IMR 4064 and they handled all of my reloading need for 25-06, 270 Win and 30-06. That all changed when a good friend who is a long range PRS shooter tried Reloader 17. He didn't like it in a 6 Dasher so he sold me 5 pounds at a good price. I couldn't believe how well it shot in all 5 of my 30-06 rifles with 150 and 165 grain bullets and although I continued to use IMR 4350 it wasn't as important to me. I also found that Reloader 17 was a great powder for 117 grain bullets in my 25-06. I eventually acquired a 338-06 and R17 would shoot very small groups at 200 meters using the 180 grain AccuBond. A second 338-06 didn't like R17 so I developed a R15 load that works in both rifles. My fascination with new powders goes on and on and now I am trying different combinations in a 280 Remington and for now I have settled on R19. Althought I have H4350 and R16 I just can't get them to work very well. I've noticed that some others are having the same problem and won't give up their go-to powders no matter how much the extreme powders are talked up on the internet. I can't talk about small groups at 100 yards because all of my load development is at 200 meters or further.

 

[Mike Matteson]

What about the one's in the rifle? I carry at total of 12 rounds on me. 3 being in the rifle mag, and one chamber, if it's a Mauser Action. The other 8 rounds also carry 2 sets of 4 rubber banded together with one in each front pocket of my pants. That's about it. Never gone pass the 4 in the rifle. Generally only one round. If I have gone through more it was because somebody or me had wounded an animal. I hate tracking an wounded animal. Been there and done that too. It all come to knowing what that bullet is doing.
The SD I didn't totally understand until reading more about it. My chronograph was telling me, and there wasn't anybody home. I glad I held my shots to about 500yds. I knew I didn't have all the info to shoot longer ranges nor the equipment to do that. I didn't fully understand or what I was looking at to determine what need on my part. The reason for all the information is I am going to extend my range out to 700+ yds or so.

 

[NCWshooter]

Ahoy Mates!
I have questions for the seasoned reloaders… I have 7 mid 50's and early 60's rifles that were Grandpa's. He was a gunsmith. A .243 Win, a 264 Win Mag, a 7mm Mauser, a 7mm Rem Mag, 2 .308 Norma Mags, and a .338 Rem Mag. I am starting to do the reloading process, and after watching this forum, was hoping to keep things safe, yet simple. Powders listed for 5 of these calibers is the 4350. 1 powder, 6 calibers sounds like a win-win. Looking through the Lyman's 50th bible, the mid weight bullets say IMR 4350 and it appears the heavy weights suggest H4350. It also claims that Accurate 4350 was created to compete against IMR 4350, but you can't use the IMR data loads. I have Accurate and IMR 4350, been in the hunt for H4350 for a year,
Am I totally wrong wanting to try to use one powder for all? All of the belted calibers listed, Lymans say the IMR 4350 propellant is very accurate. Toss on the next challenge: wanting to get exclusive with hammer bullets because of CA. so load development is even less available…
Ideas? Thoughts? Other powders?
Hunting Whitetail, Antelope, Mule deer, wild boar, Elk and Bear. Not trying for Groupings of minimal MOA @ 1000yard stuff. Ideal range is <500
Thanks everybody

Not wrong at all, IMO; I have done the same thing especially since availability became an issue. I think your idea is a good one to find powders that work in multiple calibers. I did that adding Blue Dot for my handguns.

 

[Mike Matteson]

You can use the IMR powders, but develop your loads during the summer as in the heated part to the year. That way you should be save. To get a real ideal on how that bullets is going to fly. You need shot in either weather conditions to see how it does. If you do the development in the hot weather, there shouldn't be any problem in the cold weather. The bullet won't carry quite as well or drop some in flight.
So now I know what happen to all the Blue Dot. Ha! Ha! I use that in my 12 ga shotguns with 1-3/8 oz shot loads.

 

[Sage70]

I have been using IMR 4350 for over 50 years and I really like the way it sounds, smells and the lack of smoke, and it is a happy feeling to use IMR 4350. This powder has always been my base mark for judging other powders. Then when the extreme powders came out I just couldn't wait to try R16 and H4350. To my surprise they sound different, smell different, feel different and smoke a lot more and I don't like them very much. Another powder that really smells and smokes is Viht N150 although it shoots good in my 338-06, but it takes a little getting used to. It's different to shoot and have a noticeable puff of smoke come back in your face. I wonder if others have noticed the change in sound, smell and the amount of smoke.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Never paid any attention to that. I look at velocity, accurate, IMR powders have a problem with heat. I hunt in 120*+ difference in temp during the year.

 

[Roughrice]

I have noticed the difference in the way IMR and H4350 shoot. I find H has a snappier recoil and very slight smoke puff when shot out of my old 30-06 developing loads a while back. I stayed with H but IMR is fine.