4350 Powders

[Sage70]

Basically 15.5, 16, 23 and 26 are replacing 15,17,19, 22 and 25.

I don't think this statement is true because of the local popularity of all of the Alliant powders. I went to my local gunshop this week and all of the Alliant powders that you listed above were on the shelves with the exception of R 15 and it was sold out. Purchases were limited to one pound of powder per customer per week but I had purchased a pound of R15 last week. From my point of view it doesn't look like Alliant will be replacing any of their powders any time soon. All of the IMR powders like IMR 4831, IMR 4064, IMR 4895 and IMR 4350 were on the shelves and the only H powder available was H4831sc. This is only the second time this year I have seen H4831sc because Hodgdon doesn't seem to be shipping their H line of powders to my area. I think Hodgdon would be more likely to phase out their IMR line because when I look at the load data on the Hodgdon website they have quit showing loads for some of the IMR powders. That seems strange to me.

 

[L.Sherm]

Like I said your free to choose to use the older ones if you want, I dont

 

[Mike Matteson]

In your 308 Norma Mag. I have one too. I started off with IMR 4350 and IMR 4831. I had over pressure with the IMR Powders do temp change from cool to hot weather. Gave away 16 lbs or so back in 2000. (do to temp change) I hunt in weather from 100+ to -20. Never cross that bridge again. My 308 NM is from a M-98 action and a 26" barrel. I used H4350, Fed 210 Primes, 165 gr AccuBond now at about @ 3300fps in Winchester Case. Load is hot, but no ejections marks. Primers are flat. You can start out with the low powder charge and go up at .5 gr at at a time to see where you hit high pressure. I am in the middle 70 grs. of powder with H4350. I would load up a single round at each powder weight. Mark the cases to sure you don't mix them up. Watch your primers for becoming flat, but not creator. If you don't want to bump the case. You can use a 300Win Mag neck sizing die to size the necks. It only if set up right size about 1/2 of the neck. That will cut down the case stretch at the belt. After that your primer pocket will get loose after about 10 firing. If not you will loose the case in about 3-5 firing by FL resizing.
H4350 and H4831 do come up more often than H1000 powder. Never have use H1000, but looking to get 16lbs someday.
You can reach me at [email protected]

 

[dennisinaz]

I'm not familiar with the 338 REM mag. I wonder how it differs from the Win version

 

[DJ Fergus]

Imr or 4350 will work for what you've mentioned. Your twist rates in those older rifles are probably going to be standard twist rates of the time period they were made in. I'm guessing twist rates will be optimal for a 200gr in the 338, 180gr in the 308 Norma, 120gr in the 264wm, and maybe a 70-90gr in the 243. I will say that the burn rate of a 4350 powder should work really well for those bullet weights in those cartridges. I do not think it would be ideal for the extremely longer heavier bullets in those cartridges. Even though it may work, it's likely your twist rate may be to slow for longer heavier bullets. You could certainly give it a try though.

 

[Mike Matteson]

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Can't quite figure out the chart totally. Where did you get this? I am very interested in it. Please advise it possible. Thanks

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Can't quite figure out the chart totally. Where did you get this? I am very interested in it. Please advise it possible. Thanks

This was the explanation per L Sherman:

Since RL 17 was brought up lets use it for example. 1.42 is the fps it will change per temp deg difference.
Let's say you developed a load at 40 deg and it warmed to 60 deg or went to another state and hunted. There is a 20 degree difference in temp.
1.42 fps x20 degrees =28.4 fps difference with your load developed at 40 degrees.

 

[L.Sherm]

Can't quite figure out the chart totally. Where did you get this? I am very interested in it. Please advise it possible. Thanks

Google powder temp stable chart

 

[Mike Matteson]

Google powder temp stable chart

Thanks!

 

[P7M13]

Here's a link to the information:

Powder temp sensitivity chart

If you read the thread, there's lots of discussion about the accuracy of the numbers and variables in powder burn rates. One member on that forum with the same name as @338 dude here, lists numbers that are very different.
Variables that affect burn rates: for example, some powders are known for extreme burn rates to the point of detonation when the load has insufficient case fill (<80%).

You can go by numbers in a chart, but if you're really chasing the extreme accuracy dog tail, recommend you have a dope book for the extreme conditions you'll be shooting in.
All this made me wonder, if your ES/SD are both single digits at NTP (Normal Temperature and Pressure - 20 °C / 68 °F and an absolute pressure of 1 atm / 14.696 psi / 101.325 kPa), will your ES/SD still be single digits at 32°F, 12 psia? If so, then I don't care what the delta MV/°F is, all I care about is the drop I have recorded.

Edit: Seems the link above didn't work. Here's another stab -

You are being redirected...

 

[Mike Matteson]

H 4350 is out there somebody has it and of course you are going to pay premium price for it same for primers.

It's somewhat hard to fine. Go the different suppliers on line and place it on your wish list. I have able to get 8lbs powders in H4350, H4831, and couple of others over the months. I have gotten Brass, Powder, and reloading equipment over the pass several months. Primers are the one's that seem to never come up.
The other day, a Sportsman Warehouse open by my presently location. I was able to get my hands onto 1000 Rem 9 1/2 primers. No powder as of yet. So you might watch for a Sp. Warehouse to open up by you. They had and still do have a fair amount of factory ammo there.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I live in Ga.we have a long deer season, opening day can be a scorcher. I have been reloading since I was 15 now 72, still learning. Back then I loaded for 22-250, 270, 243. I have never had a problem with pressure used 4350, 4320 4831 4350, 4895 on and on. These new powders that are not so heat sensitive fasinate me and I know very little about them. I however intend to start using them in my 7mag, 300 win mag when supply improves.
.

Likewise I started at age 14, (now 73) and used IMR 4831 in my 300 H & H Mag. for years. Move up to a 25/06 in my 20's and change to MRP powder for that rifle. I also got a 220 swift in my 20's and use IMR 4064, and still do. In 2000 I was developing a load for my 308 Norma Mag using IMR 4350, & 4831. Push a primer out of the case. Load was hot and develop in the winter time. in 50 to 60 degree weather. when into summer and the temperature had climb up by 50+ deg. So I stop use IMR powder in most cases. Moved onto H4350 and stayed there. I do use W760 and I see now it's can be trouble with temp. That load was develop in the summer time, so heat doesn't create a problem, but I also hunt in cold weather. So I will get a chance to see how much it's effected in the winter time.
Great to see another long time reloader.

 

[greenejc]

Ahoy Mates!
I have questions for the seasoned reloaders… I have 7 mid 50's and early 60's rifles that were Grandpa's. He was a gunsmith. A .243 Win, a 264 Win Mag, a 7mm Mauser, a 7mm Rem Mag, 2 .308 Norma Mags, and a .338 Rem Mag. I am starting to do the reloading process, and after watching this forum, was hoping to keep things safe, yet simple. Powders listed for 5 of these calibers is the 4350. 1 powder, 6 calibers sounds like a win-win. Looking through the Lyman's 50th bible, the mid weight bullets say IMR 4350 and it appears the heavy weights suggest H4350. It also claims that Accurate 4350 was created to compete against IMR 4350, but you can't use the IMR data loads. I have Accurate and IMR 4350, been in the hunt for H4350 for a year,
Am I totally wrong wanting to try to use one powder for all? All of the belted calibers listed, Lymans say the IMR 4350 propellant is very accurate. Toss on the next challenge: wanting to get exclusive with hammer bullets because of CA. so load development is even less available…
Ideas? Thoughts? Other powders?
Hunting Whitetail, Antelope, Mule deer, wild boar, Elk and Bear. Not trying for Groupings of minimal MOA @ 1000yard stuff. Ideal range is <500
Thanks everybody

IMR 4350 will work for all of them. I use it in 6mm Rem, 30-06, 300WM and 308. In a pinch, I use either 4350 or IMR4831 in my 25-06. Your barrel twist if the barrels are commercial would be 1 in 10 for most of those calibers, with maybe 1 in 9.5 for the 7mm RemMag. The .338 is probably a Winchester Magnum chambering. As to bullets, try Barnes. They're more available at this time, and load data is also available in nearly every load manual that's been printed in the last 8 years. The various X bullets will do pretty much anything you want to do inside 600 yards. Also, a couple of alternate powders which will work in just about all these calibers are IMR4831 or H4831. I also like your ideal range. I don't like trying to kill anything bigger than an antelope at over 500 yards. There's too much of a chance of either a bad hit or poor expansion. If I think my shots are going to be really long, I go to either the 300WinMag or the 35 Whelen because they both make enormous wound channels at that distance.

 

[greenejc]

When I did a comparison test with the three 4350 powders all loaded at the same charge weight in my 30-06 with a 165gr bullet,A4350 gave me the highest velocity and the best group,followed closely behind was IMR 4350.It was only about 15fps less and group size was just a tad larger.H4350 was the slowest About 30fps slower and gave me a slightly larger group than the other two.The groups ranged from just under one half inch to just over three quarters of an inch,so really all three powders performed really well in the test.Here is another kicker.I use Winchester cases and they tend to have a larger volume.When all three powders are loaded at the same charge weight,A4350 fills the case the fullest,followed by IMR4350,then H4350 giving the most extra room in the case.I could have easily added one or more grains of powder in the case with H4350 and an easy half grain more with IMR 4350,but I was already at a compressed load with A4350.So If I was to tweak these three loads where they filled the case to the same volume level,H4350 would have most likely given me the highest velocity with a one grain increase,followed by IMR4350 with it's half grain increase and A4350 staying the same charge.I don't know how my groups would have changed,but a little tweaking can make a difference in the results.

I get groups of between 0.4" and 0.7 inches with the same charge of IMR 4350 in three different 30-06's at 100 yds. I shoot 180 grain Sierras and Speers, and sometimes I load their 200 grain projectiles. Velocities are always good, and I mostly use Winchester, Remington and Hornaday casings, with some Federal casings. Remington casings seem to be more accurate, with Winchester casings a close second. I generally load at least two grains under the max, which takes care of pressure issues.