300 wby vs 300 win mag

[Hugnot]

I have a .300 WM. COAL 3.6, depending on bullet, Up to 80 grains powder, depending on bullet & powder. Nice Hart 10 twist barrel. Able to buy Peterson "long" .300 WM brass. Able to get .5 groups usually. Enough rifle for me - no need for a .300 WBY.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I have a .300 WM. COAL 3.6, depending on bullet, Up to 80 grains powder, depending on bullet & powder. Nice Hart 10 twist barrel. Able to buy Peterson "long" .300 WM brass. Able to get .5 groups usually. Enough rifle for me - no need for a .300 WBY.

Do the same with a .300 Weatherby and you get more velocity and the same kind of accuracy.

 

[martinakl]

It's also a game changer potentially, compared to 7 years ago, that Peterson makes brass for .300 weatherby now (or at least their site says they do).

I also think this is an interesting development. They have actually produced the brass. I posted links when it was in stock at grafs.com. They had 300 Weatherby and 6.5-300 Weatherby available.

As soon as I saw that I emailed Peterson and put a "vote" in for producing 257 Weatherby and 30-378 Weatherby brass. I'm not sure they're actually taking votes, per se, but I sent an email encouraging those options.

 

[Calvin45]

I also think this is an interesting development. They have actually produced the brass. I posted links when it was in stock at grafs.com. They had 300 Weatherby and 6.5-300 Weatherby available.

As soon as I saw that I emailed Peterson and put a "vote" in for producing 257 Weatherby and 30-378 Weatherby brass. I'm not sure they're actually taking votes, per se, but I sent an email encouraging those options.

Hehehe…I've heard many claim that the soft brass of the .30-378 means it's great capacity doesn't really beat the RUM and 338 lapua based cartridges. Peterson brass in .30-378 would be "interesting"

 

[Hugnot]

Do the same with a .300 Weatherby and you get more velocity and the same kind of accuracy.

I am one who puts a premium on practicality, .300 WBY brass is excessively pricy & difficult to find. Velocities would probably be in the order of 2-3 % more with the .300 WBY, than my 3.6" COAL .300WM - no big deal, not worth it. I shoot about 3500-4000 rounds per year from an assortment of 20 rifles, including my .300WM. Periodically, I get good deals on .300 WM, 1X fired brass but prefer the Peterson "long" .300 WM for on the shoulder head space.

 

[asd9055]

I am one who puts a premium on practicality, .300 WBY brass is excessively pricy & difficult to find. Velocities would probably be in the order of 2-3 % more with the .300 WBY, than my 3.6" COAL .300WM - no big deal, not worth it. I shoot about 3500-4000 rounds per year from an assortment of 20 rifles, including my .300WM. Periodically, I get good deals on .300 WM, 1X fired brass but prefer the Peterson "long" .300 WM for on the shoulder head space.

You can say "I like 300 WIN" case closed. We all have our likes. To try and justify velocities, energy, cost, accuracy, you loose. I have 300WBY Brass made by RP, Nosler, Hornady, WBY and Norma. You do get MORE than 2%-3% velocity when you are using the same methodology for both, in the line of the 7%-10% more.. Cost incremental of 300WBY over 300WIN, minimal, just the difference in powder.
So just say you like 300WIN better. Case closed. Its I like Ford and the next person likes Chevy.
The facts can NOT change, anything a 300WIN can do, a 300WBY can do better!

 

[asd9055]

Now, want to talk about factory rifle accuracy, let's talk. My 1959 Factory MK V (German) with pitted barrel, still shoots less than 0.5" at 100 yards (180 grns). My ~30 year old Japanese MK V still shoots 0.5" (200 grns) at 100 yards. My US made 25 year old MK V shoots 0.3" at 100 yards (200 grns). All these three rifles were bought USED! My 2014 MK V, bought new, shoots 0.4" at 200 yards (180grns). All these rifles are with factory trigger, factory stock, factory barrel, not bedded.
This is with ME shooting. I good shooter will do much better!!!!
I have a Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless (New Heaven) in 300 WBY. I bought used, just put a scope on it, and I will get to play with it when componets are more available.
Talk feelings, no one can argue, talk facts, get them straight first!

 

[Hugnot]

You can say "I like 300 WIN" case closed. We all have our likes. To try and justify velocities, energy, cost, accuracy, you loose. I have 300WBY Brass made by RP, Nosler, Hornady, WBY and Norma. You do get MORE than 2%-3% velocity when you are using the same methodology for both, in the line of the 7%-10% more.. Cost incremental of 300WBY over 300WIN, minimal, just the difference in powder.
So just say you like 300WIN better. Case closed. Its I like Ford and the next person likes Chevy.
The facts can NOT change, anything a 300WIN can do, a 300WBY can do better!

Mr. Weatherby was an excellent marketer of his products.

My argument is not loose but is supported by looking at published load data comparing both cartridges. My .300 WM has a COAL of 3.6 " roughly the same as the .300 WBY and would lose a small amount of velocity in comparison to the highly promoted .300 WBY. As I remember the .300 WM was designed about 1955 to fit in standard long action bolt guns having magazines compatible with .30-06 length rounds. This entailed designing the .300 WM so the bullet needed to be seated deeply to fit in a standard long action magazine & occupied much powder space. My .300WM does not have this problem, COAL is roughly the same as the .300 WBY. A look at the Hodgdon site data:

.300 WBY, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.590, Retumbo 84.5, pressure 53,100 CPU/62,590 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2942
.300 WIN, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.340, Retumbo 78.0 C, pressure 52,100 CPU/61,074 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2872

The velocity difference is 2942 - 2872 = 70 fps. 70/2872 = 2.4 % - this is for the shorty, powder capacity challenged .300 WM

A photo of my .300 WM, 208 H AMAX, 3.60 COAL round (dummy), head spaced on shoulder;

This means I could pour more than 78.0 grains of Retumbo into my extended length .300 WM and make it go faster. Loading 178 Hornady ELD M bullets my velocities pass 3,100 fps, easily in .300 WBY territory. Possibly the double radius shoulder business makes the WBY faster?

The smith who chambered my rifle won the Wimbleton cup with a similarly designed .300 WM.

However, nothing beats a Weatherby, a true example of American entrepreneurial & innovative spirit.

 

[asd9055]

Mr. Weatherby was an excellent marketer of his products.

My argument is not loose but is supported by looking at published load data comparing both cartridges. My .300 WM has a COAL of 3.6 " roughly the same as the .300 WBY and would lose a small amount of velocity in comparison to the highly promoted .300 WBY. As I remember the .300 WM was designed about 1955 to fit in standard long action bolt guns having magazines compatible with .30-06 length rounds. This entailed designing the .300 WM so the bullet needed to be seated deeply to fit in a standard long action magazine & occupied much powder space. My .300WM does not have this problem, COAL is roughly the same as the .300 WBY. A look at the Hodgdon site data:

.300 WBY, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.590, Retumbo 84.5, pressure 53,100 CPU/62,590 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2942
.300 WIN, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.340, Retumbo 78.0 C, pressure 52,100 CPU/61,074 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2872

The velocity difference is 2942 - 2872 = 70 fps. 70/2872 = 2.4 % - this is for the shorty, powder capacity challenged .300 WM

A photo of my .300 WM, 208 H AMAX, 3.60 COAL round (dummy), head spaced on shoulder;

View attachment 312059

This means I could pour more than 78.0 grains of Retumbo into my extended length .300 WM and make it go faster. Loading 178 Hornady ELD M bullets my velocities pass 3,100 fps, easily in .300 WBY territory. Possibly the double radius shoulder business makes the WBY faster?

The smith who chambered my rifle won the Wimbleton cup with a similarly designed .300 WM.

However, nothing beats a Weatherby, a true example of American entrepreneurial & innovative spirit.

Selective data comparison! I did that in college. Exclude data that does not support my thesis! I could do that but it's not important ! Also, the 300 win came in 1963 a few years after the 300wby and it was a 300 H&H modification. Shoot your preference! I shoot them all! But facts yiu can not change
Also, when you make your "modifications" for your rifle and load long, what percentage increase do you get? Just to quote your comments earllier

 

[Hugnot]

Selective data comparison! I did that in college. Exclude data that does not support my thesis! I could do that but it's not important ! Also, the 300 win came in 1963 a few years after the 300wby and it was a 300 H&H modification. Shoot your preference! I shoot them all! But facts yiu can not change

I did carefully select data because I needed to show pressure data & Hodgdon shows pressures.

I converted CPU to PSI by::

and - .300WM, trim 2.61

and 300 WBY, trim 2.81

These data shows a close relational difference between the two cartridges - mostly same powders, same bullet & same barrel length. Looking at the data, I see that the .300 WM loses 2-3% velocity over the .300WBY and that is with the shorty, max 3.340 COAL powder capacity challenged .300 WM. Would RL26 give the .300 WBY a bigger boost.

Looking at Alliant RL26 data for the .300 WBY & shorty .300 WM - no pressure data. Not that much difference in velocities.

.300 WM fans might consider giving that round a longer action and greater COAL in the contest with the .300 WBY. My 3.6" WM easily gets 3,100 plus with 178 H ELDM's - real close to published data for .300 WBY. The VihtaVuori site gives the .300WBY about a 200 fps advantage over the shorty, capacity challenged .300WM but with a 1.75 or so longer barrel. I have lots of VN165 & use that in my .300WM with 178's and equal .300 WBY velocities.

My paid working experience demanded inclusion of all data & work was subjected to intensive review, loose stuff would get me yelled at or worse- nothing like a computer to magnify a screw up.

Weatherby ads often had celebs posing with their Weatherby rifles and dead elephants.

 

[Swamplord]

let me be the first one to tell you this ...

forget all that generic internet graph bs and do a personal side by side load data work up of both cartridges with powders and bullets suitable FOR each individual cartridge.... in the appropriate barrel lengths the cartridge works best in .... you can skew data to support the outcome you want to present .. all you want , but real world experience will always prevail

case design, powder burn rates, barrel lengths and cartridge chamber throat specs do interesting things that all those graphs and generic data WILL NOT show

 

[asd9055]

I did carefully select data because I needed to show pressure data & Hodgdon shows pressures.

I converted CPU to PSI by::

View attachment 312071

and - .300WM, trim 2.61

View attachment 312072

and 300 WBY, trim 2.81

View attachment 312073

These data shows a close relational difference between the two cartridges - mostly same powders, same bullet & same barrel length. Looking at the data, I see that the .300 WM loses 2-3% velocity over the .300WBY and that is with the shorty, max 3.340 COAL powder capacity challenged .300 WM. Would RL26 give the .300 WBY a bigger boost.

Looking at Alliant RL26 data for the .300 WBY & shorty .300 WM - no pressure data. Not that much difference in velocities.

View attachment 312078


.300 WM fans might consider giving that round a longer action and greater COAL in the contest with the .300 WBY. My 3.6" WM easily gets 3,100 plus with 178 H ELDM's - real close to published data for .300 WBY. The VihtaVuori site gives the .300WBY about a 200 fps advantage over the shorty, capacity challenged .300WM but with a 1.75 or so longer barrel. I have lots of VN165 & use that in my .300WM with 178's and equal .300 WBY velocities.

My paid working experience demanded inclusion of all data & work was subjected to intensive review, loose stuff would get me yelled at or worse- nothing like a computer to magnify a screw up.

Weatherby ads often had celebs posing with their Weatherby rifles and dead elephants.View attachment 312080

You go to the drag races and take the fastest car and tune it out to slow it down...that is what you do.
The WBY was designed for higher pressures. That is why the 9 lugs on the bolt and the stout boltt.
I am donw with you!

 

[FEENIX]

 

[Capt RB]

Mr. Weatherby was an excellent marketer of his products.

My argument is not loose but is supported by looking at published load data comparing both cartridges. My .300 WM has a COAL of 3.6 " roughly the same as the .300 WBY and would lose a small amount of velocity in comparison to the highly promoted .300 WBY. As I remember the .300 WM was designed about 1955 to fit in standard long action bolt guns having magazines compatible with .30-06 length rounds. This entailed designing the .300 WM so the bullet needed to be seated deeply to fit in a standard long action magazine & occupied much powder space. My .300WM does not have this problem, COAL is roughly the same as the .300 WBY. A look at the Hodgdon site data:

.300 WBY, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.590, Retumbo 84.5, pressure 53,100 CPU/62,590 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2942
.300 WIN, 200 Nosler AB, COAL 3.340, Retumbo 78.0 C, pressure 52,100 CPU/61,074 PSI, barrel length 24" Velocity 2872

The velocity difference is 2942 - 2872 = 70 fps. 70/2872 = 2.4 % - this is for the shorty, powder capacity challenged .300 WM

A photo of my .300 WM, 208 H AMAX, 3.60 COAL round (dummy), head spaced on shoulder;

View attachment 312059

This means I could pour more than 78.0 grains of Retumbo into my extended length .300 WM and make it go faster. Loading 178 Hornady ELD M bullets my velocities pass 3,100 fps, easily in .300 WBY territory. Possibly the double radius shoulder business makes the WBY faster?

The smith who chambered my rifle won the Wimbleton cup with a similarly designed .300 WM.

However, nothing beats a Weatherby, a true example of American entrepreneurial & innovative spirit.

Which manual shows 3.6 coal with their data. I haven't found one yet for the 300 win. In essence, you want your custom load that is .260 longer than book