300 RUM vs 300 Dakota

[WildRose]

jrsolocam,

I was thinking (I know - scares me too sometimes). Just because I can't accurately shoot the heavier bullets at range with my 12 twist Krieger, doesn't mean I can't shoot them across the chrony, right? If you don't get any bites/answers let's keep in touch and I'll load some up and give'er a try. I may have to ask you for some loads from your program and we'll cross check them and work up to them to verify they are OK and I can give you the results. I'm not promising 100 different combos mind you - remember the brass is pricey . Hopefully, someone has already been there and done that and will save us both the hassle.

Wildrose - sounds like you just don't like wildcat/custom rounds. That's cool. It's a free country; I respect that. You should have just said that to start with. I also agree that many of those wildcats are more marketing that substance, where they basically make some insignificant tweak to something and stick a new name on it. If customers like it, and they sell guns, I guess it's fine, but I agree I also don't see the point sometimes. However, I wouldn't call EVERY "wildcat round created by a custom manufacturer for their custom rifles, brass etc. They were the only one's chambering for it and providing the brass for a good long while" marketing gimmicks. I think many of Kirby's, Baer's, Dave Vier's custom chambering like their .338-.408 variations fit exactly what you describe - that doesn't make them simple marketing gimmicks. There is some substantial ground-breaking going on with some willdcats. If I'm not mistaken, most of the best rounds ever "invented" started somewhere first as a wildcat. I see you like your factory 300 RUM Sendero II (nice pics). But, just because Big Green doesn't sell the Dakota or 338 Big Baer or 338 AM at Wal Mart doesn't mean you have to be a hater. Yes, "they are what they are" unique and wildcat - true, certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but it's not fair to equate that to worthless, valueless gimmicks. Oh well, moving on...

Happy 4th! Our fireworks are all cancelled - seems nature overloaded us here in CO with her own fireworks last week here near C-Springs.

I'm certainly not knocking all of the wildcats because as you say some of them really do offer something substantially improved over existing rounds.

For example the big .338's are really relative newcomers at least in terms of civilian/sporting shooting and it may be yet another decade before any of them really prove out as superior and popular enough to grab a big share of the market.

Also in the same vein is the .375's, .408's, and .416's.

When it comes to the .300's and 7mm's though the market is so saturated with variants it's not like anyone is going to come up with something radically improved over what already exists today.

When one does go however with the true wildcats, that immediately limits their ability to find reasonably priced ammo and components, and as I've mentioned previously I've learned from experience that it is quite possible to have a hunt ruined when someone brings one of them along and one way or another gets separated from their ammo.

The other drawback to them is that with the latest greatest, newest and coolest of them choosing one of them also quickly limits the number of smith's willing to build around such a caliber due to the expense and their lacking experience with such calibers.

 

[aspenbugle]

Here Here, I agree. There wasn't a lot of new ground to explore 20 years ago when the Dakota came out, and even less today with RUMs, WSMs having been added.

Components: depends what you wildcat from, they can be every bit as cheap and have as much variety as factory rounds - especially if you wildcat from a factory round. I agree on the ammo - good, well-documented point by many. You're ALWAYS safer with popular rounds. However, I think it can be overblown. Big, expensive trips you ship ammo ahead of time, and verify it arrives before you even leave. Even local CO trips for me, I usually have shells here, there and everywhere. If I don't have shells, I probably don't have boots or a coat either. Also, to be honest, whether it's elk camp 3 hours away or Africa around the world, there is another good functioning gun nearby. May not be your ideal choice, but hey I elk hunted with a used 30-06 for MANY years and still managed to kill stuff. Darn, I don't have shells. Give me something that shoots straight to 200 yards and goes boom and lets go have some fun in the woods. I bow hunt too and can embrace that mentality. I hunt'em close, hunt'em far. It's all good. I'd be bummed, but it wouldn't ruin my hunt. Your point is valid though.

Gunsmith comment - true some I guess. This hasn't really been my experience with gunsmiths, but once I finally made the leap to going the custom route, I started looking for the higher-end, benchrest quality guys, not the local corner-store hobby-shop guy. Not trying to act "high brow" - I just figure if I'm buidling a "dream gun" that I may use for 10-20 years, especially a long-range one, I want it done right (and they often don't charge much more). If you walk in and ask about just about any chambering you read about here, a good smith with know all about it, have the reamer, or have one he can get his hands on. If they just look at you like you're from Mars and go "huh", you are probably in the wrong shop (just my opinion). My experience isn't that they don't know the cartridge, they just tend to be a very opinionated group, usually for a good reason, and many have forgotten more than I can hope to know, but...they may not WANT to build the round for you because they think something is better. Most will still do it of course, but that always makes me a bit nervous. I'm sure they'd do just as good of work, but me thinks if it ever didn't shoot well, it would be easier to say "I told you, you shouldn't choose that", vs. if their "pet round" didn't shoot, they'd be more keen to exhaust all avenues solving it - but that's just my paranoid psychology of it (no proof). My personal theory has been it seems better to find a smith of like mind to how you think - and who likes building what you want (but I'm no expert, which is why I mostly read here and don't post much). I do agree, when it's "brand new" I'd hate to be the 1st or second one he has ever built, just like I hate my vehicle to be the 1st one the mechanic has worked on. I'd rather find the guy who's repaired/built 50.

Cheers.

 

[jrsolocam]

jrsolocam,

I was thinking (I know - scares me too sometimes). Just because I can't accurately shoot the heavier bullets at range with my 12 twist Krieger, doesn't mean I can't shoot them across the chrony, right? If you don't get any bites/answers let's keep in touch and I'll load some up and give'er a try. I may have to ask you for some loads from your program and we'll cross check them and work up to them to verify they are OK and I can give you the results. I'm not promising 100 different combos mind you - remember the brass is pricey . Hopefully, someone has already been there and done that and will save us both the hassle.

Wildrose - sounds like you just don't like wildcat/custom rounds. That's cool. It's a free country; I respect that. You should have just said that to start with. I also agree that many of those wildcats are more marketing that substance, where they basically make some insignificant tweak to something and stick a new name on it. If customers like it, and they sell guns, I guess it's fine, but I agree I also don't see the point sometimes. However, I wouldn't call EVERY "wildcat round created by a custom manufacturer for their custom rifles, brass etc. They were the only one's chambering for it and providing the brass for a good long while" marketing gimmicks. I think many of Kirby's, Baer's, Dave Vier's custom chambering like their .338-.408 variations fit exactly what you describe - that doesn't make them simple marketing gimmicks. There is some substantial ground-breaking going on with some willdcats. If I'm not mistaken, most of the best rounds ever "invented" started somewhere first as a wildcat. I see you like your factory 300 RUM Sendero II (nice pics). But, just because Big Green doesn't sell the Dakota or 338 Big Baer or 338 AM at Wal Mart doesn't mean you have to be a hater. Yes, "they are what they are" unique and wildcat - true, certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but it's not fair to equate that to worthless, valueless gimmicks. Oh well, moving on...

Happy 4th! Our fireworks are all cancelled - seems nature overloaded us here in CO with her own fireworks last week here near C-Springs.

Aspenbugle, that would be cool. I'm not expecting my rifle for another 11-12 months. The heavier loads with longer bullets are hard to come by. I guess I can do trial and error, but its nice to have a decent starting point. Whenever you would like QL data let me know I would be happy to help.

 

[sloone]

enjoyed the read very much.i have 2 custom built 30 caliber magnums.a 300 win mag and a 300 dakota.love them both.had the dakota built in 2000 if my memory serves.was making a decent living and like having something different.clay spencer in virginia built it and he had a few equals,but none better in my opinion.clay built it on a rimrock stock i got from jim borden.at that time i had it built on a benchrest trued and sleeved remington.used clays own barrels he made and had all the important stuff done.used it a lot when i hunted in british columbia and the yukon years ago.the last 10 years or so i have used my 300 win mag in the lower 48 when in grizz country.both great cartridges.the dakota hit hard on both ends,but i really liked it cause of the shorter action.there are many great 30 mags out there.just do what makes you happy.ps if you really want to have some fun,build a 270-300 win mag and shoot 130 and 140 grainers out of it.i got real lucky with a broughton hummer barrel on mine. shot zero groups up to 1/4" with the 130 mrx and hornady 140 accubonds.mrx were the older barnes longer range bullet.great hunting to all and to all good health. 3 shot not 5 shot.

 

[fta0303]

It is as I described. A wildcat round created by a custom manufacturer for their custom rifles, brass etc. They were the only one's chambering for it and providing the brass for a good long while.

More power to them and to those who enjoy shooting a "unique" wildcat and custom rifle, but my friend, it is what it is.

Don't be so stubborn. The Dakota cartridges do have their advantages, as pointed out by aspenbugle. Your statement was out of line and not true.

 

[jessej]

12 year old argument