300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

[Deerhunter47]

I'm after some advise about which bullet would be best suited to this calibre, it seems most guys prefer the 180gr but the 200gr seems to be the better option down range. Has anyone shot with this old gentleman on a regular basis ? If so how do you rate this calibre as a long range option considering all the newer calibres that are available to us nowdays ? Cheers.....

Caracal;
I have been shooting this old timer since about 1965. Originally used it for mule deer in Colo. caribou in Alaska.
Recently I started working with the Hornady 200 gr. ELD-X. Going to use RL-22, 65 to 67 grs, where I find a load that will group 1/2" MOA. Velocity should be around 2850/2900 FPS.
I not a regular longrange shooter, so like to take my shot(s) at less than 300 yds.
I believe that the old 300 H&H lose it's following because most hunters by the early 70's or 80's wanted more velocity and flatter trajectory. Just a personal opinion, but far what I have seen, velocity/energy destroys too much meat.
That said, if a 6 x 6 bull was broadside at 800 yds, I may take the shot. I know this "oldie" can do the job.
Just returned from range today, touched off 26 rounds (from bench), no sore shoulder! Try that with another 300 Mag. hunting rifle.
Winchester Per '64 M-70, 26" barrel, 1x10 twist. Manuf. 1957.

 

[WildRose]

I'm after some advise about which bullet would be best suited to this calibre, it seems most guys prefer the 180gr but the 200gr seems to be the better option down range. Has anyone shot with this old gentleman on a regular basis ? If so how do you rate this calibre as a long range option considering all the newer calibres that are available to us nowdays ? Cheers.....

Many years ago. there are faster 30's on the market, starting with his son, the .300wm but the critter you shoot probably won't notice the difference of of 150-200fps much until you get beyond 600yds. Even then it's relatively negligible.

 

[WildRose]

You may also find that the 300 H&H is a very efficient magnum, meaning it can usually achieve the same velocity as the other 300 magnums (300 RUM excluded) while burning a couple grains less powder in the process.

No, not with equal bullets it can't. It's just not possible without way overloading it and under-loading the others, especially the Rum.

 

[WildRose]

Long before 1912 when the 300H&H came about specifically for 1000yd shooting(it was in fact designed JUST for that purpose) the 45-70 was chucking 400gr bullets 1000y at Creedmore Long Island NY. Roy Weatherby used it as a base for all his double radius cases( I think). I never shot one but would. The tech of 1912 is still relevant for LRH today. Good luck if you go with that cal.

No Roy was using the .300H&H.

Yes the 45-70 will chuck big balls of lead that far but with an arc only an artillery or mortarman can truly appreciate.

 

[Bart B]

Long before 1912 when the 300H&H came about specifically for 1000yd shooting(it was in fact designed JUST for that purpose) the 45-70 was chucking 400gr bullets 1000y at Creedmore Long Island NY. Roy Weatherby used it as a base for all his double radius cases( I think). I never shot one but would. The tech of 1912 is still relevant for LRH today. Good luck if you go with that cal.

Why would a British company introduce a cartridge (H & H Super 30) in 1925 for long range matches that's not allowed by their rules? Only the 303 British cartridge was allowed in the Commonwealth until the late 1960's.

The USA version, 300 H & H Magnum, was first used in USA competition in 1935 setting a 1000 yard record that stood until 1970 when a friend broke it with a 7mm Rem Mag.

Note the USA 800 to 1000 yard target ring sizes stayed the same from the late 1800's to the early 1970's. The USA team in the late 1800's used 44 caliber Remington or Sharps rifles with 100 grains of powder under 510 grain bullets. Then the 30-40 Krag followed by the 30-06.

 

[HARPERC]

Good to see a post from Bart B, been awhile!

 

[mmacfive]

No, not with equal bullets it can't. It's just not possible without way overloading it and under-loading the others, especially the Rum.

Wow. Way to revive an 8 year old post.

according to Nosler load data with a 200 gr bullet the H&H has .4 gr less powder capacity. Therefore with the heavier bullets the H&H and WM are virtually identical. Even the 1gr capacity difference with the 165 gr bullets will be hidden in individual rifle differences.

Both the ones I own are an amazingly accurate rifles. I don't understand how since they have that long taper, a belt, and require a long action!

No, not withequal bullets it can't. It's just not possible without way overloading it and under-loading the others, especially the Rum

 

[Bart B]

Is it fair to compare a 58,000 psi spec cartridge to a 64,000 psi spec one by overloading the lesser one to match the greater ones velocity?

Cartridges with slight shoulder angles center bullets in the bore when fired equally precise as greater angle ones.

 

[mmacfive]

Yes I think it's fair. I don't don't consider it overloading.

Is it fair to the 257 bob, 6.5x55, 7x57, 30-06, etc that they are artificially held to low SAAMI specs in modern rifles? e.g. to say the 6.5 CM is sow how superior to the 6.5x55 in modern rifles because the Swede is held to 48Kpsi is simply asinine.

The 300 H&H can be loaded to the same pressures as the WM in today's rifles.

 

[Bart B]

Is it fair to the 257 bob, 6.5x55, 7x57, 30-06, etc that they are artificially held to low SAAMI specs in modern rifles?

Where does SAAMI pressure specs say they differentiate artifically between modern and century old rifles?

 

[mmacfive]

Where does SAAMI pressure specs say they differentiate artifically between modern and century old rifles?

I thought that was common knowledge. Why do you think they are different?

 

[mmacfive]

I'm going to give you two examples:

1). Let's say I have a Remington 700 in 280 Remington. I get the itch for something new and unscrew it and ream it out to a 280 AI. I use my leftover rounds to fire form my brass. Do you think it was dangerous to load to 65Kpsi when it was a 280 but now it is safe?

2) I really like 6.5s do I buy two new Tikkas and new Lapua brass. One is a 6.5 CM and the other a 6.5x55. Do you think it's safe to load the CM to 65Kpsi but the 6.5x55 will blow up over 50Kpsi?

I hope this clarifies my position.

 

[Bart B]

I thought that was common knowledge. Why do you think they are different?

There's only one set of SAAMI pressure specs for each cartridge for the measuring system used. Some use both PSI and CUP methods, others only one method.

 

[WildRose]

Wow. Way to revive an 8 year old post.

according to Nosler load data with a 200 gr bullet the H&H has .4 gr less powder capacity. Therefore with the heavier bullets the H&H and WM are virtually identical. Even the 1gr capacity difference with the 165 gr bullets will be hidden in individual rifle differences.

Both the ones I own are an amazingly accurate rifles. I don't understand how since they have that long taper, a belt, and require a long action!

I respond to threads when they pop up, I don't resurrect them. The quality of information and it's value doesn't diminish over time.

There is more to the equation than just case capacity. The difference in capacity may only be 1 grain but the performance is improved upon with the difference in shoulder angle.

If you're loading you can't load up an H&H enough to equal the performance of the Win if you're also maximizing the Win. I simply can't be done.

The difference in performance was enough to reduce the H&H to a niche cartridge with a small following in just a few years after the Win was introduced.

As I said, whatever you're shooting will not notice the difference when the bullet arrives but there is enough of a difference that the Win became the dominant 300 magnum round on the market and still remains so.