Holland Brake-Is This Right?

[308 nate]

joecool,
I have followed hired guns post as he asked questions about a muzzle brake a couple weeks ago and he stated he was having a gunsmith near Minot install his brake. I guess this is how I knew that D.H didn't install it. It would be interesting to know if it was off the 11 o'clock side or the 1 o'clock side when looking at the muzzle. If it was the 1:00 side he took too much and did not feel like going another revolution to correct his mistake, but if it is the 11:00 side it is possible (depending on how far off it is) you could possibly tighten and loosen several times to bring it up to center.
I do not lock-tight my brakes on as I have never had a need for it. And it is nice to be able to thread them off if I want, but when they are removed if they are not torqued back on properly they can favor one side or the other.
as stated it doesn't take a rocket scientist to index a brake, but you do need to have the eye for it. there are a lot of optical illusions that can trick a person and it may be a good idea from a gunsmiths point to just lock-tight them in the proper rotation to avoid improper re-installation of the muzzle brake, but I would hope that if anyone ever had a problem with a brake that I have installed that they would contact me and give me the chance to correct it.
FWIW,
308nate

Nate


Holland put one on my buddies Sendero last year. It was off as well.

Not the way I'm reading it…. Maybe Hired Gun can clarify
who did the in installation for us…

 

[Hired Gun]

Let me clarify, You are both right. It was/is a Holland brake installed by my local smith. His name is Darrel Holland. He lives just south of here in Powers Oregon. The top holes where right at 12:30. Overclocked. He said anywhere betwenn 11 and 1 was plenty good enough and to not worry about it. With the flutes it stood out terrible. We just took it off and reset it in locktite. It did function just fine.

 

[308 nate]

Let me clarify, You are both right. It was/is a Holland brake installed by my local smith. His name is Darrel Holland. He lives just south of here in Powers Oregon. The top holes where right at 12:30. Overclocked. He said anywhere betwenn 11 and 1 was plenty good enough and to not worry about it. With the flutes it stood out terrible. We just took it off and reset it in locktite. It did function just fine.

My appologies,
I guess I should pay more attention. I was confusing hired guns post with the original post by backcountrypro.


Nate

 

[J E Custom]

Nate is right ,it doesent take a lot of though to install a break indexed
strait. but it does happen and it probably doesent effect the way it
works "BUT" it does effect the way you think about the smith.

Before I started building my own rifles I had a very well known gun smith
build me a long range rifle with a 31" fluted barrel and he did not index
the flutes.It did not effect the way it shot but it looked like $h!+ and
bothered me untill I fixed it.

Needless to say I never used him again even though he was known to be
a good smith it just bothered that he said ''It's Ok'' when it really was'nt
to me.

When someone has a custom rifle built he wants it perfict not ''OK''.

Just my 2 cents
J E CUSTOM

 

[Backcountrypro]

308 Nate-Would you be interested in correcting this for me? I took the gun back to the gunsmith right away and he told me not to worry about and that it was as close as he could get it. I have no hope that he will correct for me. I know it probably won't affect anything but to me it is a eyesore. Heck I am a farmer-my crops grow well in both crooked and straight rows and I will take straight rows anyday.

 

[joecool]

My appologies,
I guess I should pay more attention. I was confusing hired guns post with the original post by backcountrypro.


Nate

Nate

Apology accepted I was just a little concerned about Darrell Holland letting something like this out of his shop. Especially after all the gunsmiths here said it should never happen.

The reason for my concern is I need to have a couple of brakes put on and Holland is also my local smith…

 

[Fiftydriver]

I would never say much against another smith unless there was a quality or safety issue at hand.

I will however say there can be a wide range of difference between some gunsmiths work. I get a giggle out of some of the local guys that come up to the shop, ask for a price quote and then almost turn blue in the face when they here what I charge for my work, which to be honest is right at the national average for smithing work.

Then in a few months, they come back with something that has been done to their rifle, many times, its that the muzzle has been ported and back reamed and now the rifle does not shoot worth a darn.

Simple fix, cut off the damaged barrel at the muzzle and start over and do it RIGHT.

There can be a wide range of pricing from different smiths, generally those that DO IT RIGHT, charge a bit more money simply because they know and understand what it takes to do things correctly and in most cases that is simply a bit more time involved and paying attention to what your doing. Most importantly, its not be satisfied with Thats Close Enough. Knowing most of the other smiths that have commented on this post and including myself, that would not be something you would hear or see from us.

If the brake tightened down over TDC, I know we all would take her another revolution and make the job RIGHT and eat another 15 minutes of time instead of sending out something that is of poor quality.

That said, if a customer tells me they want to take the brake on and off alot, I will index it slightly before TDC. YOu would have to really look to see it. Also, for this situation, I will generally recommend something Lika Shawns DE brake or Nates with only side ports. The reason is because you can index the brakes slightly short of TDC and as there are no top ports, its nearly impossible to tell. THis way when the brake is removed or installed it will eventually work over in rotation but will take quite a while to go over TDC unless the customer gets carried away torquing it.

With a quality thread fit, it is amazing how little a brake needs to be torqued to stay put. Now on a loose thread fit, they need to be torqued down pretty hard. But those of us on here that give a rats rear about our finished product do not cut threads that way, they are a quality fit thread and just a light torque with some medium strength thread locker will hold them in place with even the largest magnum rifles.

Simply put, to the original poster, the brake was not installed correctly. Simple as that. as already mentioned, its a simple matter to index a brake. If your lathe will hold even 1 thou tolerances, its extremely easy to perfectly index a brake if the smith has the desire to take the time to do it correctly. I have not seen a lathe yet that would not hold tolerances tight enough to easily be accurate to 1 thou. Most are several times less then this as far as repeatable results.

Just my opinion, a bit of laziness in my opinion. Functionally, you will not see any issues unless its dramatically off TDC, then you can see some down angled thrust that you may notice with large capacity magnum chamberings but thats about it.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Darrell Holland]

Gentlemen,

Greetings, thanks for the kind words on our RADIAL BAFFLE QUICK DISCHARGE muzzle brakes. They are indeed a very effiicient design and work incredibly well on rifles and pistols. Mr. Carlock's formula is correct simply divide the thread pitch into 1.00 and you have the number of thousands required for a full revolution/index of the brake. All Holland Brake designs feature a 28 tpi thread pitch. It is best IMHO when getting close to TDC ( top dead center) to go slow and take just a couple of thousands off at a time. The use of Loctite is okay, we prefer to use an anti-seize compound when assembling and torque the brake to around 30-40 ft. lbs.

To the gentlemen that said we mis-installed the brake (alignment) Be sure that the brake is not over tightended??? I do my best to make perfect installations, and am not aware of anything leaving the shop that would have missed my eye??? I will glady re-index if that is the case???

On another note, beware of Imitators copying our brake designs and using our Quick Discharge trademark. All of our brakes are machined from heat-treated materials and are of the finest workmanship possible. If you know of some uncreative type who is knocking-off our designs I'd appreciate knowing who it is???

As gunsmiths we work hard to develope a solid product line and reputation that supports our family and employees. Its irritating to see people try and degrade those efforts with lesser quality copies.

Best regards to all,

Respectfully,


Darrell Holland

 

[Southpaw]

It's great to see the integrity and class of the smiths that support LongRangeHunting.com

Shawn, Kirby, Darrell, Nate and others not named all set the standard for creating works of art and do this while providing stellar customer service. As I read through the thread to Darrell's post I thought to myself that I would have no problem handing any one of them a check and asking when my personal piece art would be complete. I can't say that about anybody in my town or within several hundred miles.

Of course none of this would be possible without our host Len Backus and his fellow moderators.

Thank You all

Southpaw

 

[FEENIX]

It's great to see the integrity and class of the smiths that support LongRangeHunting.com

Shawn, Kirby, Darrell, Nate and others not named all set the standard for creating works of art and do this while providing stellar customer service. As I read through the thread to Darrell's post I thought to myself that I would have no problem handing any one of them a check and asking when my personal piece art would be complete. I can't say that about anybody in my town or within several hundred miles.

Of course none of this would be possible without our host Len Backus and his fellow moderators.

Thank You all

Southpaw

Cheers!

 

[Darrell Holland]

Dear Southpaw,

Thanks for the support.... I like the the other "smiths" mentioned work hard to make our customers happy and over the years develope a product line that we are known for. Imagine someone taking the Allen Line of cartridges and calling it their own, or bootlegging all the hard work Shawn has done with his video's???

We all need to stick together and support those dedicated individuals who dedicate their lives to the sport and occupation they love. Len needs a lot of credit as well, he provides the hard work and technical talent to see that long range shooters/hunters enjoy this forum.


Thanks again for your support and efforts on behalf of us all.


Respectfully,


Darrell Holland

 

[BountyHunter]

I just put the new radial brake on my 338 Lapua AI and it works unbelievable. The QD brake was nice, but the radial is so much more efficiant.

BH

 

[Darrell Holland]

Dear Bounty Hunter,


Glad you are a happy camper, tell the world about our products.

Have your tried Advanced Reticle Technology in a Leupold Nighforce or Schmidt & Bender yet????

Our Ballistc DATA CARD MAKER is another product that you'll love. Give the girls a call and have them send you a program. Tell them I said it a FREEBIE.... It is compatible with Sierra Inifnity 5.1 and 6.0

541-439-5155

Be safe and shoot straight!!!


Respectfully,


Darrell Holland