300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

[HARPERC]

Using the search bar is something to be encouraged. Sometimes it results in a rehash of topics, sometimes produces new info. Probably half the people here now, weren't 10 years ago.

Technology also provides ignore features for those not interested to use.

 

[Bart B]

I've been very lucky, both of my long, tapered, belted 300H&H's and my 375 H&H shoot around 1/2 moa, or about as good as I can do.

What's the biggest groups size?

The realistic and fairest way to claim rifle accuracy is by the largest groups it shoots. That's what can be counted on. A few lucky groups will be small but all the rest are bigger.

If you're wagering how accurate your stuff is, why use the smallest groups ever produced? The odds are not in your favor.

Look up benchrest records for the smallest 5-shot group, then compare that to an aggregate record of several 5- and 10-shot groups. The largest group in aggregates is typically 20% or more bigger than the aggregate average.

If you shoot a hundred 5-shot groups, the smallest one happens 1% of the time.

 

[Bart B]

The evils of belted magnums are nothing but marketing hype.

They perform as well today as they have for the last hundred years.

I agree. I tested one of mine alternating two different bullet weights and case types with 15 shots each at 1000 yards. Half were new cases with 190's , half were once fired double sized with 200's. All 30 went inside 5.5 inches.

Their drawbacks are heavy recoil during barrel time and reloading issues.

The NRA 1000 yard 20 shot prone record with a scope is held by a 300 Win Mag, 200-19X

 

[mmacfive]

What's the biggest groups size?

The realistic and fairest way to claim rifle accuracy is by the largest groups it shoots. That's what can be counted on. A few lucky groups will be small but all the rest are bigger.

If you're wagering how accurate your stuff is, why use the smallest groups ever produced? The odds are not in your favor.

Look up benchrest records for the smallest 5-shot group, then compare that to an aggregate record of several 5- and 10-shot groups. The largest group in aggregates is typically 20% or more bigger than the aggregate average.

they shoot anywhere from .25" to .75" or so. Occasionally better. Occasionally worse depending on me. I guess if I were taking my best group and saying that's what the gun is capable of then the 300's would be in the .1" or so.

I don't play that game.

 

[mmacfive]

I agree. I tested one of mine alternating two different bullet weights and case types with 15 shots each at 1000 yards. Half were new cases with 190's , half were once fired double sized with 200's. All 30 went inside 5.5 inches.

Their drawbacks are heavy recoil during barrel time and reloading issues.

The NRA 1000 yard 20 shot prone record with a scope is held by a 300 Win Mag, 200-19X

BTW in an earlier post you said shooter variance can cause up-to 100fps velocity differences. That seems incredibly high to me. Why do you believe that?

 

[Bart B]

BTW in an earlier post you said shooter variance can cause up-to 100fps velocity differences. That seems incredibly high to me. Why do you believe that?

Two people shooting the same stuff bagged on a bench top holding the rifle with different forces against their shoulders. Coupled with different body center of mass offsets to the recoil axis. Test your stuff shot totally free recoil versus held as hard as possible to your shoulder

These are also the reasons why several people shooting the same stuff require different sight zeros to hit point of aim. I've seen up to a 1.5 MOA spread.

 

[mmacfive]

Two people shooting the same stuff bagged on a bench top holding the rifle with different forces against their shoulders. Coupled with different body center of mass offsets to the recoil axis.

These are also the reasons why several people shooting the same stuff require different sight zeros to hit point of aim. I've seen up to a 1.5 MOA spread.

I get that and agree with all of it.

But you gave a quantitative number: 100fps. Where did you get that number?

 

[Bart B]

I get that and agree with all of it.

But you gave a quantitative number: 100fps. Where did you get that number?

From a National champion and a Sierra bullet company ballistic technician.

I've got a 60 fps spread myself

 

[wardog5]

300 H&H was an old time Safari rifle. Holland developed the cartridge in the 40's or 50's I believe to be a big gun for hunting. Weatherby got into the size mattes contest and kind of stole Hollands thunder. Since then Holland has kind of petered out. The market then was overwhelmed with the new and improved Weatherby cartridge's and Winchester Magnums took over. Everybody fell in love with the Win Mag stuff because it was cheaper. Most recently Remington started making the RUM's. Hence the Holland & Holland (H&H) has become the old man on the mountain. I suppose if some one were to really start playing with it and doing an improved version it could become a contender again. It was limited by the powders of the day. So that is the story in a nut shell. There are some really good reads. If you go to Shooting Times.com they have articles that can give you some idea of what's up with these old calibers.

Tank

POAckley did it he made a short magnum version with the H&H as the pearent case he said as I read anything over 70 grains of powder you don't gain much more velocity he was getting near 3150-3200 with the old powders in his belted short magnum Similar to the 30-338& the 308 Norma mag these super mag 30 caliber rifle burn a lot of powder to gain 200 fps

 

[wardog5]

POAckley did it he made a short magnum version with the H&H as the pearent case he said as I read anything over 70 grains of powder you don't gain much more velocity he was getting near 3150-3200 with the old powders in his belted short magnum Similar to the 30-338& the 308 Norma mag these super mag 30 caliber rifle burn a lot of powder to gain 200 fps

It's a bore to powder ratio when it becomes over bore the gain is reduced