.30-378 Wtby Mag vs .30-338 Lapua Mag vs .300 RUM vs .300 Jarrett

[Buffalobob]

Running a comparison of the 7AM launching a 200 gr RBBT at 3350fps with the 300 Tomahawk and 190 Berger at 3600fps and a 30-378 Wby with a 240 SMK at 3200 fps:

We find that the 7AM arrives at 1500 yards with a velocity of 1900fps and energy of 1630 #
The 30-378 arrives at 1500 yards with a velocity of 1620 fps and energy of 1400#
The 300 Tomahawk arrives at 1500 yards with a velocity of 1600 fps and energy of 1100#

If we consider that momentum and the size of the hole is more important than energy then the 30-378 and the 7AM run neck and neck at 1500 yards in terms of killing power.

So until one moves to the really big 338's launching really big heavy projectiles and you talk about 2K distances you can do very well with the 7AM. I certainly would not hesitate to shoot a moose at 1K with it if Roy would send me the coordinates for it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Of course one can play with bullet weights and muzzle velocities for hours and hours and shift the numbers around but the bottom line stays the same-the 7AM is a contender at 1500 yards.

 

[BigDsDuty]

Buff,

Where can I find some more reading on this 7AM? Does that stand for Allen Magnum, and if so isn't there a .30AM?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Michael Eichele]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to hunt moose at all the 338 would be my only suggestion.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems in most cases, moose are much easier to harvest than elk. Seems being the operative word here. There is nothing wrong with a 7mm for a moose. If anything, I would rather have a 7mm for moose and a big 30 (or 338) for elk.

Please note that this is merely MHO and not an argument. Just another point of view from a avid moose and elk hunter.

 

[Buffalobob]

The 7mm Allen magnum is a wildcat built by Kirby Allen AKA Fiftydriver. It is based upon a 338 Lapua magnum blown out and improved and then necked down to 284. It burns about 102 - 105 grains of H US869 (or you can use WC872)behind a 200 grain Rebated boattail bullet made by Richard Graves in Canada. It is pretty well behaved for a wildcat and shoots accurately with a minimum of fuss.

I happen to be fond of 7mm's (as well as weatherby's and stray cats). My gun can be found toward the end of the first link.

Here are some links to stories. There were some others I tried to find but couldn't.

Allen mags shooters

Kirby's kartridges

Case forming

Antelope

Kirby's gun

My elk


If your heart is just set on a 30 caliber of unwholesome dimensions you can email Kirby as to where he stands with a 30 cal and what bullet might be available.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi i would look at 338's and either a 338 Edge or 338 Allen MAg. For both i would use a Joel Russo A%Laminated Stock. for the barrel i would get a LAwton 30" 1 in 10 twist cut rifled barrel. for the action i would get a LAwton 7500 series for the 338 Edge and if you wanted to go with a 338 Allen Mag the Lawton 1000 is the way to go. either is available as a repeater so that is covered. As for muzzle breaks i make an awsome type i am sending one to Kirby for his 50 Allen Express and one to Shawn for a large 30 cal on Monday or tuesday. As for the calibres the 338 Edge is a lighter moe portable rifle but the 338 Allen can also be built sub 16lb. The 338 Allen MAg is the roles royce of 338's it is just awsome to reach out to the next Zip Code where the 338 Edge limits you to about 1800 yards still not to shabby.

The main thing is the distances you wish to shoot. If you are happy under 1500 yards the 338 Edge is the way to go and the barrel and handloading is also a lot cheeper for it. But if you want the most you can get the 338 Allen Mag is the one it will get you past 2000 yards and have velocity to spare but their is no free lunch the barrel will last about half the edge i believe and the loading will also be about twice aswell. But the barrel is a consumable and if you wand the best you can not run it with cheep accesories.

The 338 Edge is also one of the easiest cartriges to load for the Allen MAg is a bit more fussy so make your mind up on either and you can not go wrong also contact Shawn Carlock and Kirby Allen and ask them some questions and let them help you with your choices.

Cheers and Good Luck Bill
Australia

 

[zingdingo]

I honestly don't think that there has been a cartridge suggested which wouldn't get the jobs you've outlined done (that is, all should have both the pop and the accuracy you desire, given a proper build).

If I were doing the build, I would weigh heavily the hardware and logistics practically required to make each chambering tick. The 338 Allen mag is quite a cartridge, but it will require a specialized, oversized receiver to make possible. They are cool no doubt, but I see their niche as being more of an extreme circumstance long range hammer, something to get after you have the game figured out, to extend your range on targets and varmints (buffalobob's 7AM is ostensibly a 1500 yard elk rifle, you planning to shoot elk or deer further?).

For me (not everyone feels this way, but I think Kirby's own Idaho hunt story is as good an argument for it as any), a dedicated big game rifle should most likely be a repeater. Only some of the bullet/chambering combo's suggested are easy to make into repeaters on standard actions. A 338 Edge, in repeater guise, is an easy rebarrel on any plain old Rem 700 Ultra mag action. The 30-378, for example, would most likely require either a MK V, or some form of oversized custom, to qualify as a repeater.

Bullet availability is legitimately a factor. The bullets so many are having great luck with in Kirby's rounds (Wildcats), are only available from Richard (unless Kirby happens to have your flavor stockpiled). While they are obtainable, to suggest that they are as easy to procure as a .308 or .338 Accubond or Matchking wouldn't be true. I wouldn't let this stop me from getting a 7AM, but I would want to be aware of it in advance, and take it into consideration.

Finally (chambering aside), for an all around big game long range gun, I would not want to go too heavy, overall. Many would steer you heavier, and they wouldn't be 'wrong', but I wouldn't want anything much more than 12 lbs, and would consider under 10. Many be many times well after you build it you may want to take it a mile from the truck or more, and a 20 or 25 lb rifle could make that trek a royal pain, and ultimately discourage you from taking them. While true 'heavy' guns have their place, a reasonable weight gun will ultimately see far more action. You can build a 'carryable' weight gun which still offers all the horsepower and accuracy you need. Check Kirby's green lightweight 7AM for an example. Lot of info here, lot of directions, options. Hope we have helped you identify some them and sort them out. Good luck.

 

[blackco]

Your post sounds like my first post here not too long ago (exact same ???) I'm at the same stage as you and with the help of all these great folks on this page I decided on the RUM. My reasons are; #1. because they said so and sometimes that's good enough (don't argue with the guy who is doing it), #2. Brass availability/cost is a small concern, and #3. the RUM will do EVERYTHING I can do and a whole lot more. It is going to take a barrel or two (or three) before I am good enough to really use an upgrade to one of the monster 30s or even the 338s, and even then the RUM will still be plenty enough. One other thing, NEVER let reasoning keep you from making the decision you want. "Because I want the biggest/best/fastest/baddest/rarest/newest....." is a great reason to pick any of them. None of them will be a wrong choice.

 

[BigDsDuty]

You guys are very informative and now I'm looking into the Allen Magnums. Just so more research.

Colby,

Your happy with your RUM. That's cool. I have shot one many times and in the beginning it was my first choice, but I slowly come up with other choices to look into. Now that being these Allen Magnums. I guess I need to quit bugging all of you and just start searching the archives.

 

[blackco]

BigDsDuty,
Good luck!!! I'm sure I will soon follow in your enviable footsteps.

 

[Master Gunnery Sergeant]

You may want to start by taking a look and compare Weatherby's TRR chambered in 30-.378 or 338-.378 vs. Sako's TRG-42 chambered in .338 lapua. The WBY 30-.378 actually has a bullet diameter of .308 but also has a larger case capacity then the .338 Lapua. (30-378 Weatherby Magnum | Norma Precision - ammunition) vs.

(338 Lapua Magnum | Norma Precision - ammunition). This may be benificial if the right hand load could be determined, meaning: Very Fast and Flat shooting. However, given its a smaller diameter bullet; cross wind at 1000 yards and beyound could prove to be anoying. This is where the larger .338's are more advantagous in that they are of heavier wieght bullets, typically 200-300gr, thus hold over (or clicks if your a clicker) for cross wind is a lot less.

Despite the fact that the Wby .338-.378 has nearly identical ballistics as the .338 Lapua; your honest best bet is probablly the Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua(SAKO TRG-42). On top of the fact that the .338 Lapua has finominal ballistics out to 1500-2000 yards and not to mention is the choice caliber for the US Marine Corp Snipers (excluding .50 cal BMG of course) and the Canadian Black Ops Snipers (Some of our Canadian snipers have confirmed kills at 2000y using the .338 Lapua); the entire gun itself is fully adjustable and has lots of add-ons. It goes for about $3000.00 CAN. Of interest; the Weatherby TRR (http://www.wholesalesports.com/onlinestore/control/category/~category_id=10110006010021/~pcategory=1011000601) goes for about $2800.00 CAN.

For the extra $200.00 bucks I would definetly go for the Sako TRG-42 .338 Lapua. For what Sako is offering in a factory made rifle $3000.00 is more then a fair price. If you've got deeper pockets then you can always build a rifle for in and around the $6000.00-$9000.00 mark and bare in mind you haven't even put optics on yet!! In regards to features and benifits; Sako really did go all out to give you everything you need to get started in long range shooting.

Hope this helps or least points you in the right direction. Here is another awsome link that answeared a lot of my questions, this should really help you out a lot: PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART I: THE RIFLE & GEAR

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Colby,

When I built my rifle, I like you came here for advice. I wanted to build a 30cal as well. My rifle started out a stock Sako 995 in 30-378. I was going to re barrel the rifle w/ a 30" tube in the same cal. It was suggested to me to make it a 300RUM. I couldn't because my bolt face was too large. Kirby came on and suggested that I chamber it in 30-338lap imp. This is basically a ballistic twin to the 300 Allen Express. Kirby's is slightly bigger. I get a little more out of this rifle than a 300rum, brass lasts considerably longer than the Weatherby brass.

I am currently shooting the 180 E-tip. My barrel is 30" Lilja. MV is 3600fps, 1500yrd vel is 1377fps w/ 757ft lbs energy. 240g SMK out of this rifle will arrive at 1500yrds w/ 1564fps and 1303 ft lbs energy.

If you don't mind the time that has to be spent loading the wild cat, I recommend it. If you go w/ Kirby's 30 cal he can supply you with fire formed head stamped brass, and all you have to do is load. The 30-338 lap imp is the best 30 cal over bore going in my opinion.

If I had it to do over, I would consider a faster twist than the 1-10 that I went with. The new high b.c. bullets and mono metal require a faster twist in order to perform correctly. I believe the mono metal bullets are the wave of the future and should be considered when planning your new rifle. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.

Steve