.30-06 v .308 for LR

[Bravo 4]

Since long range competition is the goal I would want as much in my favor as I can get. A 30-06 will have a velocity advantage with any given bullet. As mentioned by gohring 30-06, the .308 can have a problem with 1000 supersonic. I have shot matches that went to 1000 yards with a .308 (7.62x51) and some guys couldn't compete past 800/900. I know that had to do with the 168 SMK being used (and altitude), but that little extra velocity from a little bigger case could have made all the difference. I know the .308 can win, it has won every F T/R match I've ever been to.
If I'm just out shooting steel for fun...who gives a crap? I have a cheap bolt action .308 that I paid $150 for that will shoot factory made 175 match ammo well under 1 moa out to 800. Might be the first thing I grab when "training" someone, but not what I would want to compete with.

 

[ar10ar15man]

you REALLY have to DEFINE the task.
saying long range and competition tells us nothing.
what discipline, what distance, what position

Considering one of these 2 round for competition shoots.

I noticed this immediately:

.30-06
Case capacity
68 gr H2O (4.4 cm3)

.308
Case capacity
56 gr H2O (3.6 cm3)

That give the .30-06 a 21% greater case capacity, before considering anything else. Then I noticed that there are Xtreme powder (e.g., H1000) loads for the .30-06, none for the .308. And if I'm not mistaken, there is a greater selection of "super bullets" (e.g., Berger) for the .30-06.

So, before considering anything else, from the go the .30-06 appears to be a superior round for LR competition.

 

[Hand Skills]

21% more powder will only net about 5% more velocity when everything else is equal.

Unfortunately it never is.

30-06 SAAMI spec is 60kpsi
308 SAAMI spec is 65kpsi

This means one needs to reload if they want to realize that extra 5%.

With factory ammo and the same length barrel, performance is remarkably similar.

Good .308 match ammo may be easier to find.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

A 30-06 will have a velocity advantage with any given bullet.

You obviously know your stuff, but I respectfully disagree with this statement as does a few reloading manuals, for bullets up to 150 grains. In fact, in some cases, the .308 exceeds 30-06 velocity. The very slight variable between the two, as pointed out by Speer, for 150 grain and lower, is more defined by the barrel performance. I'll be the first to give the 30-06 a nod over the .308 for bigger bullets, very much like I'd give the same nod to a 7MM RM over the 7WSM, for handling bigger bullets (>160 grain).

 

[imyourhuckleberry]

I have always favored the 30-06 because there is so much the cartridge has to offer. In my opinion when the 30-06 begins to falter it is because people will want lighter rifle and therefore buy one with a 22"or 24" barrel length. Optimally you can get the best velocity from the 26" barrel or longer because there is a direct correlation but this does not make it inherently more accurate.

What the longer barrel does is allow you to push the envelope beyond a thousand yards and still maintain a supersonic velocity without dropping into the transonic stage. Furthermore the longer barrel will increase the weight which will tame your recoil. Also it allows you to adjust your recipes from lighter bullets to heavier bullets with increased powder charges to shoot heavier bullets at increased velocities. With todays modern bullet designs the selection of higher bc bullets for the 30-06 are more readily available and can give a 300 win mag a run for its money at 1000 yards easily but at a lower cost. Just my opinion and 2¢.

 

[gohring3006]

You obviously know your stuff, but I respectfully disagree with this statement as does a few reloading manuals, for bullets up to 150 grains. In fact, in some cases, the .308 exceeds 30-06 velocity. The very slight variable between the two, as pointed out by Speer, for 150 grain and lower, is more defined by the barrel performance. I'll be the first to give the 30-06 a nod over the .308 for bigger bullets, very much like I'd give the same nod to a 7MM RM over the 7WSM, for handling bigger bullets (>160 grain).

You will only see this in manuals.
More powder, more speed. All else being equal. Especially if you load to 65k psi.

 

[xsn10s]

My 308 win 168gr loads run 2780 fps with a 24" barrel. My 06 168gr loads run 2900 fps with a 22" barrel. I haven't even tested the newer powders yet in the 30-06, or the 185gr Berger.

 

[cajun]

What kind of LR competition? And why these two calibers? Almost no one shoots a 3006 in LR competition. Lots of 308's because of ftr rules. But these guys generally can't hang with the 6's and 6.5's and lately the 7's with sierras new 7mm bullet. Now back in the day when the military went from 3006 to 308 they did a lot of testing and the 308 was inherently more accurate due to it's case design. There's a reason the military chose the 308 over the 06 for it's sniper rifles.

 

[Hand Skills]

Are you implying the reason was ''accuracy"?

 

[Bravo 4]

You obviously know your stuff, but I respectfully disagree with this statement as does a few reloading manuals, for bullets up to 150 grains. In fact, in some cases, the .308 exceeds 30-06 velocity. The very slight variable between the two, as pointed out by Speer, for 150 grain and lower, is more defined by the barrel performance. I'll be the first to give the 30-06 a nod over the .308 for bigger bullets, very much like I'd give the same nod to a 7MM RM over the 7WSM, for handling bigger bullets (>160 grain).

Well thank you Sir for being so cordial. We can have different takes or opinions and still get along.
7.62x63 (30-06) vs 7.62x51 (.308)
My take is this: You take a cartridge and cut it down almost 1/2" taking away 21% capacity, and bump pressure up by merely 8% and that doesn't translate into better performance. Close, but not better. Can a .308 outrun a 30-06? Sure, but it will have more to do with how it's loaded or the rifle set up than the case capacity difference. The military proved that when they introduced the 7.62x51 and the ball ammo exceeded the '06. Everything being equal thought, the bigger case will win.

 

[CMP70306]

Now back in the day when the military went from 3006 to 308 they did a lot of testing and the 308 was inherently more accurate due to it's case design. There's a reason the military chose the 308 over the 06 for it's sniper rifles.

I was under the impression that the .308 replaced the 30-06 because the powders and bullets of the day left the two of them on equal footing in terms of performance so they elected to go with the shorter lighter cartridge.

 

[ltcjwb]

The .30.06 was the round of choice in long-range competition for almost half of the 20th Century, until the .308 became the favorite in the late 50's and early 60's. The primary reason that the .308 superseded the .30-06 was the lower recoil. Yes, the .308 case design is efficient, allowing the smaller case to produce velocities within 100 fps of the larger round. The reduced recoil, though is what made it popular, both as a target round, and as a hunting round. Even to us old guys, who learned on the '03 Springfield and M-1 Garand. Yes, the .308 has been superseded in many contests by the 6.5 and 6 mm cartridges, with more efficient bullets, but the .308 is still, overall, better than the .30-06 for 1000 yard competition. Ask any PALMA or F-Class shooter.

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Considering one of these 2 round for competition shoots.

What competitions (I didnt see an answer on this yet)?

Unless the rules state it must be 308 or 30-06, then look elsewhere entirely, as others have noted the 308 will give you marginal performance and the -06 will only give you slightly less marginal performance and beat the cr*p out of you on a longer course of fire.

If the rules stipulate 308 or 30-06 then go with the 308. Running something like a 175gr SMK or comparable will get you out to 1000 in the 308, and the incremental performance of the -06 in that bullet weight will not be meaningful enough to justify the increased weight, powder burned, and recoil.

Again, this is all assuming a competition. For games, the 100-150fps you gain by going to the -06 will only return a couple % higher hit percentage.

 

[winsx3]

I have handloaded for both for a number of years now and one thing I have found out is that the .308 is far easier to get an accurate load for than the .30-06. So if you're going to handload you may want to factor that in. Both are great rounds though.