30-06 215 Match Hybrid Loads

[NEMTHunter]

Your method and numbers look fine to me and it looks like you've causously worked your load. You can mask some of the pressure signs but if your holding primer pockets in 06 brass for as many firings as you are you well in the same zone for your rifle. My long throated 308 with a long barrel will make 2600 fps with a 215, its stout load but still under red line!!
Any 300 win I build with a 26 in plus barrel will run a 215 at 3000 fps with a load that will have good brass life, a 28 in will be comfortable at 3000 fps.
The 215 has a short bearing surface for its weight also, this also makes it hard for some to wrap their mind around shooting such a heavy bullet in a 308 or 06 size case and doing so well with them.
Don't let guys who can't do basic rifle math get you down!! Long throat+ long barrel+ short bearing surface= velocity

I agree 100% Infact i was gathering information to show how much less bearing surface the 215 has over other bullets the same weight. I still might get it together to post up. I think the 215 has the same if not less bearing surface then the 200 grain sierra bullets i was shooting.

This is the internet. it does not bother me to bad. LOL if you post up on ANY forum you have to be willing to take the heat.

Thanks!!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I agree 100% Infact i was gathering information to show how much less bearing surface the 215 has over other bullets the same weight. I still might get it together to post up. I think the 215 has the same if not less bearing surface then the 200 grain sierra bullets i was shooting.

This is the internet. it does not bother me to bad. LOL if you post up on ANY forum you have to be willing to take the heat.

Thanks!!

Kinda reminds me of the guy who blew up his 7rem a couple of months ago after giving us 7stw shooters crap that his little 7rem would run with the big dogs forever. He ate some tasty crow after she blew...

Run your rifle as hard as you want... I simply do not care... As to my rifles, I'll run a bigger rifle and take it easy on the system. The harder you push, the harder things wear. I'd much rather run a rifle 200fps under max. "book" potential than 100 fps over. You have zero headroom for variations if you are at the wall. Not too bright at all imo. You do not have the equipment to actually verify pressure either.

I made your mistake and set the lugs back on a '06 twenty years ago; I wasn't getting pressure signs and I WAS getting decent brass life. The action simply didn't tolerate the beating I gave it. I was only 100 fps or so over book with 150's. Never again; I'll call anyone on running their rifle hard as it is dangerous. Get a bigger toy or go home.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Kinda reminds me of the guy who blew up his 7rem a couple of months ago after giving us 7stw shooters crap that his little 7rem would run with the big dogs forever. He ate some tasty crow after she blew...

Run your rifle as hard as you want... I simply do not care... As to my rifles, I'll run a bigger rifle and take it easy on the system. The harder you push, the harder things wear. I'd much rather run a rifle 200fps under max. "book" potential than 100 fps over. You have zero headroom for variations if you are at the wall. Not too bright at all imo. You do not have the equipment to actually verify pressure either.

I made your mistake and set the lugs back on a '06 twenty years ago; I wasn't getting pressure signs and I WAS getting decent brass life. The action simply didn't tolerate the beating I gave it. I was only 100 fps or so over book with 150's. Never again; I'll call anyone on running their rifle hard as it is dangerous. Get a bigger toy or go home.

Did Harley blow his rifle up???

 

[bigngreen]

I made your mistake and set the lugs back on a '06 twenty years ago; I wasn't getting pressure signs and I WAS getting decent brass life. The action simply didn't tolerate the beating I gave it. I was only 100 fps or so over book with 150's. Never again; I'll call anyone on running their rifle hard as it is dangerous. Get a bigger toy or go home.

Unless your rifle was throated out the same, with same length barrel and same bearing surface bullet you have zero grounds for a solid assessment of his pressures, why act like he's going to blow himself when you have zero clue what he's running.
Bring some relevant data to back up your position based anything relevant to the manner in which this rifle is set up and you may have a leg to stand on but right now I'm not seeing anything other than "you'll shoot your eye out"

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Unless your rifle was throated out the same, with same length barrel and same bearing surface bullet you have zero grounds for a solid assessment of his pressures, why act like he's going to blow himself when you have zero clue what he's running.
Bring some relevant data to back up your position based anything relevant to the manner in which this rifle is set up and you may have a leg to stand on but right now I'm not seeing anything other than "you'll shoot your eye out"

I do not have the numbers to know for sure he is safe, but I have plenty of load data telling me otherwise.... heck, even the second poster warned the o.p. after running the load through quickload.

You can put up a straw man argument all day long about how little data I have; I don't need any as he is 300 fps over what you should be able to do with an '06 using that bullet weight- speed limits do matter too, as often extra velocity is the only thing that actually shows up with high pressure.

He gave us the velocity and charge weight. I don't need any DATA.
Adding up everything in his favor still is far from enough IMO. Brass assessment is very lacking in its real ability to tell pressure. Keep patting this guy on the back; I'll drop off this thread as my opinion is falling on deaf ears.

 

[bigngreen]

I do not have the numbers to know for sure he is safe, but I have plenty of load data telling me otherwise.... heck, even the second poster warned the o.p. after running the load through quickload.

You can put up a straw man argument all day long about how little data I have; I don't need any as he is 300 fps over what you should be able to do with an '06 using that bullet weight- speed limits do matter too, as often extra velocity is the only thing that actually shows up with high pressure.

He gave us the velocity and charge weight. I don't need any DATA.
Adding up everything in his favor still is far from enough IMO. Brass assessment is very lacking in its real ability to tell pressure. Keep patting this guy on the back; I'll drop off this thread as my opinion is falling on deaf ears.

Seriously, your not even going to make an attempt at using some solid data, your opinion is falling on deaf ears because it's easy to see the holes in it. Quickload data can be close or stupid far of, how do you account for jumping the bullet which changes the dynamics of what is happening here a lot!
His 28 inch barrel will get him 100 ish feet per second over any published reloading data, also using a short bearing surface bullet will give him better velocity per psi than most reloading data.
Take hogdgon data, their using a 3.285 coal, the OP is running a 3.623 with a .250 jump in a 28 in barrel, everything he's got going on with this rifle will yield quite large velocity gain without blowing up, there's no trick to it!

 

[Jokostel]

Who honestly CARES about his trick to do it.
It IS flat out ignorant and dangerous, no matter HOW you cut it.
It ALWAYS comes down to that if you want more, buy bigger.
Quit trying to protect stupidity... If Ruger, Remington, Cooper, HS would have seen the ability of the 3006 in this way--- SAFELY do you NOT think they would have done this.

The 3006 has limits, we all know this. Making it something more than a 150 at 3000, or a 180 at 2750-2800 is a waste. Keep shouting how its underloaded or if you dope it this way and spin around 3 times, it can keep up with a 300 win. When you have a cranial rectal inversion, I wont be there. I'll be hunting with a PROPERLY loaded rifle.

 

[bigngreen]

Who honestly CARES about his trick to do it.
It IS flat out ignorant and dangerous, no matter HOW you cut it.
It ALWAYS comes down to that if you want more, buy bigger.
Quit trying to protect stupidity... If Ruger, Remington, Cooper, HS would have seen the ability of the 3006 in this way--- SAFELY do you NOT think they would have done this.

The 3006 has limits, we all know this. Making it something more than a 150 at 3000, or a 180 at 2750-2800 is a waste. Keep shouting how its underloaded or if you dope it this way and spin around 3 times, it can keep up with a 300 win. When you have a cranial rectal inversion, I wont be there. I'll be hunting with a PROPERLY loaded rifle.

Come on, one of you has to bring some thing tangible to the argument, Remington could do it just like Weatherby but then it would not be a 30-06 to saami spec would it, it would be a different cartridge altogether! How he's set up he's just using 30-06 as a parent case, making an argument from a saami position is weak!!
Yes a 30-06 has limits, but he's not running a saami 30-06 is he? If we take your argument then there should be zero improvement when going to an ackley case right?
He's no where near a 300 Win, a 300 Win throated correctly for a 215 berger with a 28 inch barrel will be easing along in the 3000+fps range so not even close to being part of a valid argument. In fact he's right between a 300 Win and a 308 when throated for the 215 Berger, sound about where he should be!!
Your point is absolutely correct for a saami chambered 30-06 but your choosing to ignore the facts about the set up which are solid methods for gaining case capacity and velocity while staying in spec on pressure, no tricks!!
If you run a Quickload on it, and do the best you can to take into account the throating he's running about 60,000-62,000 psi, if he were to go to a slower powder he would be running even lower pressure.

 

[Broz]

That be him.

It must be something in the water up there because Broz gets really good velocities out of his 300 WM with the 215s also.

Broz, however is not in fairy tail land. He will tell you his load is rather stout... Most belted mags will not show pressure signs until you pass 70 Kpsi.
.

Guys, I don't care to get into your discussion, but since I was dragged into it with a not too nice insinuation from Shane Lindsey, let me state some facts.

Lefty is correct. I am running my 300 win mag as far as I would want to run it. I did go 2 gr higher and still didn't get any increase in bolt lift or any smear on the head stamp, but I felt I was going too far so backed off. That load which produces 3035 fps @ 4100' ASL does show just the face of the primer flat but still some rounded edges. It also shows a light shadow of the ejector pin in the head stamp if you use a magnifying glass and closely inspect. Please remember this load is in Lapua brass that is made by Norma. I have found this brass to be much softer than any other Lapua head stamped brass. So I feel a shadow of pin mark to be ok in knownly soft brass. The load is with H-1000 and I am not crunching powder. Now lets also not forget this is a custom action rifle and was chambered with a reamer from Kiff marked "Tactical Match" so I also feel this could bring something to the table. Now any of you that know me or have read my posts know I, and many many other hunters, have been shooting this same 300 win since 2009 or so. You would also know I shoot it a lot all year long. Care to guess how many rounds down the tube in over 6 years? Let me give you a hint, it passed 1500 some time ago. Guess what! Same 100 pieces of brass I started with are loaded and ready for this season. Yes the pockets are getting loose and will need tightened or tossed soon. But to date have not had any sort of tightening work done. Also I am at the same seating depth as day one, never have had to move out to chase the throat. Hey Shane Lindsey can you do that math? Let me help you incase you don't drink that good "water that we do up here" That is well over 15 firings per case.

I had a 26" barreled Snowy Mountains rifle come across my bench once not too long ago. We worked it up to 76 or 77 gr of H-1000. It shot tight, no pressure signs in WW brass and velocity from the 26" tube was 2980 fps with the 215's. We elected not to push further to find max because it was happy there and shot tight groups. Now add 20 fps per inch for my 2" of barrel on my 300 win and what do you have?

Last week we finished a 700 Long Range in 300 win with a new BenchMark 26" barrel. It shot .3~.5 moa groups with both 76 and 77 gr of H-1000 under a 215 in WW brass. 77 was showing the very first sign of pressure with a slightly flat faced primer, and just a tich of bolt lift at the very top of the bolt open (primary extraction ramp) but, only on the 3 shot of a string on a 80 degree day. No ejector mark visible. I backed it off to 76.5 gr and all was perfectly happy and groups were still .3 ~.5 average. So I put the magneto speed on and what do you know? 2975 fps from this 26" barrel too. Again add 20 fps per inch for my 28" tube and what do you get?

These loads in the 300 win are common loads I have used in many many rifles chambered in 300 win. Sure I have seen some factory barreled and factory chambered rifles show pressure at 74 gr too. But the norm is most will go 76 or 77 gr of H-1000, with the short bearing surfaced 215 Berger hybrid and not show any pressure. Brass life and primer pocket life with these rifles are all good.

EDIT to Add: Hodgdon's loading data page shows the use of 78 gr of H-1000 to be max with a 208 gr bullet that most likely has a bearing surface longer than the 215 Hybrid. They show pressure to be 60200 CUP. and also show a 220 SirerraRN load with 78 gr and said pressure is 52000 CUP.

Shane Lindsey, please refrain from making disrespectful remarks that insinuate that I am running my rifle too hot or lieing about the velocity. Those insinuations are simply now true. Yes, I feel my 300 win load is a stout load. And will tell anyone that as Lefty stated. But stout to me is still below any danger to me, the rifle, or my brass. And well over 15 firings from soft Norma brass should be all the proof needed for anyone that really knows.

Also Shane Lindsey, you indicated Montana Marine was "Drinking the same water as me" Well sir, you should get to know this retired Marine before you cast judgment. He runs his rifles safe as well. He does not shoot magnums, and I will put his firearm knowledge, safety practices as well as his skill and precision loading practices up against yours anytime you wish to come shoot. And I feel safe in the bet even not knowing anything about you, until you opened your mouth here. That did tell me a other a little about you I guess.

Good day fellas and good shooting to you all.

Jeff

 

[Edd]

What do you consider a "correct throat" for that 215 grain bullet?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Shane is using moly to get that velocity.

FWIW, I'm loading moly tumbled 215s, in Win brass, and CCI 200 primers.

I initially developed a load of 55gr RL17, at 2700 fps from a 22.5" bbl. This was in the cooler time of year.

In summer temps 55.0 gr was giving me slight bolt lift pressure, and visible primer flattening. I backed off to 54.0 gr, and 2640 fps from the 22.5" bbl.

A lot of the book loads for the 30-06 are pretty low pressure, I've ran many of them through Quickload and they calc around 40-45K psi. I think a lot of it has to do with port pressure for the Garands.

I've done some case volume comparisons, and the 30-06 with the roomier brass (Win, Norma), is only about 1.0 gr less than the volume of the 300 RSAUM. If you are not sleeping in class, that should be significant information regarding potential performance/pressure.

Good shooting, and always start low. Every rifle is different.

Shane

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Gents,
No disrespect was intended. I was defending the OPoster based on what I had read about MontanaMarine and his velocities. That is what was meant about the "water" comment. Both of you have good numbers and I have used your data as my starting points.

I have gained alot from Montana Marine as I too am a MGunny coming up on my ten year.

If offense was taken, my apologies.

Shane

 

[MontanaMarine]

Gents,
No disrespect was intended. I was defending the OPoster based on what I had read about MontanaMarine and his velocities. That is what was meant about the "water" comment. Both of you have good numbers and I have used your data as my starting points.

I have gained alot from Montana Marine as I too am a MGunny coming up on my ten year.

If offense was taken, my apologies.

Shane

No offense here. I know we've talked a bit on the PM side at LRO forum. If you are ever in this part of the country I'd enjoy meeting up.

Shane

 

[MontanaMarine]

A lot of the higher than factory performance is just a matter of taking the time to exploit the potential of the individual rifle.

I believe most rifles of the same chambering/bbl length will yield fairly similar top-end velocities, but the powder charge to get there can vary, due to all the variables in rifle and components.

Book published data has to be tailored to the lowest common denominator.


Shane