280AI with too much head space...options?

[Bob Wright]

I've pretty much abandoned my 280 Rem brass that I had fire formed. Picked up locally Nosler 280 AI brass. So, I've only gotten through about 20 pieces of it.
Checked what I've gone through. Overall length has not changed. Fired 2x. Shoulder has moved about .oo6 . Measured with a Hornady headspace gauge.
Doug

Share that with your smith. I'd say you have a concern. My 280AI was so little growth from new Nosler brass to fire formed at the datum, it just goes to show you how much variation can be had.
Especially if you had failure to fire in 4 rounds. Eek!

 

[cohunt]

Share that with your smith. I'd say you have a concern. My 280AI was so little growth from new Nosler brass to fire formed at the datum, it just goes to show you how much variation can be had.
Especially if you had failure to fire in 4 rounds. Eek!

technically it would still be within the .010" saami specs---it's definitely not ideal , but sounds like its not out of spec either-- been through this with a rifle before on the "no-go" vs "field" in 2 different cartridges

 

[Hayudog]

Like others have stated, the original Ackley version of the .280AI (.280 AI 40* or .280 Rem Improved 40*) is different than the SAAMI Nosler version of the .280AI.

Headspace in the SAAMI .280AI (by Nosler) is shorter than the original .280 AI 40* by PO Ackley.

If the gunsmith has an older .280AI reamer (to PO Ackley spec), the headspace guage of the new SAAMI .280AI will not work correctly.

If you have a way to measure your actual fired case from base to shoulder datum with a .420" comparator, or know someone who can, post that measurement. I would not be surprised if you have the original wildcat PO Ackley chamber rather than the SAAMI version reamer. That would clear the gunsmith from any wrong chambering job. You would just have to order the correct dies (and g0/no go gauges).

You could jam the bullets into the lands for your fire forming loads to keep the case head tight against the bolt face to eliminate failure to fire issues. Just make sure you don't have a max load.

The plot thickens. Contacted the original gunsmith. He had to rent the reamer. The go/no go gauge was sent with the rented reamer. He couldn't tell me which reamer he had rented. He did say that he " did not" remove and turn back the barrel. im guessing that what ever reamer he used, the no go gauge showed it to be in spec. ( I am giving a huge benefit to the original smith). I'm going to contact the reamer rental company to see if they can tell me which reamer they sent.
I'll be back with more info

Doug

 

[bigngreen]

Time to order a new barrel and have someone do it correctly who doesn't have to rent reamers he knows nothing about, find a smith that can tell you what brass and dies work with is reamer perfectly and have him chamber a new barrel!

 

[Hayudog]

Time to order a new barrel and have someone do it correctly who doesn't have to rent reamers he knows nothing about, find a smith that can tell you what brass and dies work with is reamer perfectly and have him chamber a new barrel!

Truth.

 

[26Reload]

"Time to order a new barrel and have someone do it correctly who doesn't have to rent reamer".....
My Smith rented reamers from reliable companies...cost quite a bit to have every reamer and have to worry about one breaking or other damage...rent it..send it back...dont even worry about keeping them sharp....but he does buy and save go/no go gauges.....

 

[Troutslayer2]

I had an original 280AI chamber that gave me a lot of headaches due to the newer SAAMI version. I was able to get it to shoot but the brass was getting so overworked that I had case head separation on the 2nd firing sometimes using newer SAAMI Nosler brass and SAAMI die set (didn't realize there was a difference). To sum it all up, it was a huge learning experience that I do not wish to repeat. I had a new barrel cut with a SAAMI reamer and my troubles ended. I suspect this is your issue.

 

[Hayudog]

then you should be within saami specs, as the allowable variance is .010" and new brass will be to minimum (or less) than sammi specs so it fits in any chamber

what brand gauges did your new smith use? forster uses a .004" clearance for their "no-go", yet manson uses .006" clearance -- the field gauge should always be .010" as the saami spec for the 280AI (saami) is 2.140-2.150" to datum line


if you had the old chamber then your brass would have moved at least .014"

He (New gunsmith) used Manson gauges when he checked. And as you've said, even the gauges, gauge different
no go numbers. When I contacted the original smith, he said he did not set back the barrel. The reamer was rented, and they sent a no go gauge with the reamer. I think when it's all said and done , it will have been reamed to the old orig Ackley specs, not the new SAAMI numbers. I'm not a factory ammo guy, so I'll just need to set up to reload for what it is.

I've written to the reamer rental company to see if they can track down what they rented to the gunsmith.

The frustrating part of this is ... it shouldn't be this hard to get something right. I now understand more that I should have specified that I wanted. Even As uneducated as I am in this, I know that there is a current SAAMI 280 AI, and and older wildcat 280AI. Unless someone actually specified they wanted the old set up, do it to the new, ten year old standard SAAMI standard. SMH.
thanks for your input.
Doug.

 

[Hayudog]

I had an original 280AI chamber that gave me a lot of headaches due to the newer SAAMI version. I was able to get it to shoot but the brass was getting so overworked that I had case head separation on the 2nd firing sometimes using newer SAAMI Nosler brass and SAAMI die set (didn't realize there was a difference). To sum it all up, it was a huge learning experience that I do not wish to repeat. I had a new barrel cut with a SAAMI reamer and my troubles ended. I suspect this is your issue.

Ive found a set of Lee dies that are set up for the old 280AI specs. They have a full length die. I have a neck sizing Lee collet die already. I'm used to the Lee set up, run them for my 22-250. It's going to be a low volume rifle once I find a good set up.
Obvious problem will be if I experience the brass problem you describe .

 

[Bob Wright]

Keep us updated. Hope that this can be corrected with the new smith.

 

[Warrenoliver]

It closed on the no go gauge. Said out loud the name of his gauges, and said they weren't cheap. He name dropped, but it didn't register with me. I wouldn't know good/expensive to poor/cheap. Made a video to send to the other gunsmith, demonstrating his tools and technique. New gunsmith has said exactly that. Remove and turn down the current barrel. He also said there could be other tasks that could be needed, but we'd know more when he had looked into it further. Was just asking openly to get a variety in responses. And I had hoped that the headspace issue would have a degree of accuracy related Issues that would be cleaned up. Time will tell.

I had issues with new 280 Rem brass being loaded for fire forming, 4 of the first 30 did not fire. I do not have any resistance closing on factory 280 Rem ammunition.

As far as dies, started after fire forming with RCBS . The ones marked FL 280 Ackley Improved. Part number 17001. I had set them up to only size the neck. Brass after fire forming closed easily, and wasn't convinced that the shoulder needed to be pushed back if it wasn't fully forward.
Ive had positive results with Lee collet dies. I've picked up a neck sizing die for .280.
As far as the requested chamber to be reamed for, unless specified , I would think it would be the 280 AI saami. It's stamped on the side of the barrel now. 280 Ackley Imp.

My Montana rifle company .280AI didn't shoot great groups at first either. My best groups are from hand loaded 143 Hammer hunter bullets and factory 140 nosler accubond . My best loads have been with H4831SC.

I was very interested in your comment about misfires with 280 ammo. I too have problems with that but have never had an issue with 280ai ammo.

Good luck and enjoy your 280ai.

Warren

 

[30 Hammer]

If you are in the Western part of the state take your rifle to Jim at Elite Rifle Works in Nampa. Jim and his brother do great work. He will know exactly what to do. Over the years Jim has worked on many many rifles of mine and my friends and has always done excellent work.

 

[Hayudog]

If you are in the Western part of the state take your rifle to Jim at Elite Rifle Works in Nampa. Jim and his brother do great work. He will know exactly what to do. Over the years Jim has worked on many many rifles of mine and my friends and has always done excellent work.

I've heard good reports from folks around here about Elite. Thanks

 

[Radman]

My 280 Rem, a Remington 700 Mountain rifle, shot just under an inch with my reloads. It was easy to get there, and I didn't think much of it.
A close friend shoots a 280 AI. I liked what his gun was producing, so, off the gun was sent to the same gunsmith that did his. The gun returns, and load development starts.... and I've struggled. Three different powders and a number of different weight bullets and manufacturers. Nothing better than 1 1/2", and not even consistent at that. Even tried factory Nosler Trophy ammo that friends gun runs to 3/4". Still an 1 1/2" in my gun.

Being a bit frustrated, had the gun looked at by another gunsmith. First thing he did was strip the bolt, and get out his go/no go gauges. First gauge was the go gauge and all good, as I expected. When the bolt closed on the no go, made me bit sick. With no resistance.

So. He's come up with options to bring it back into spec.
I'd like to have some input on what can or should be done to the rifle now.
And what conversation I should have with the gunsmith that did the original work.

thanks in advance. Doug

(Unless you received a used barrel),
I think that you are correct. I used to have a .30-06 that was hyper-sensitive to headspace.