280 AI vs 7 mm SAUM

[Bob Wright]

On my R700, I have a 26" Proof Stainless, 8.4 twist, 280AI.
My node with either Barnes 145 LRX or Hammer Hunter 145 is almost identical at 3100 fps.
It's loaded with RE23 and Fed GMM215M.
It can run faster but accuracy here was consistent.
Nosler brass is being replaced by Peterson brass on my next load workup. Nothing to report there, yet.

 

[SavageHunter11]

So, I am curious of your opinion, or even better, experience. I think these cartridges are nearly identical on paper (please show me your data if you disagree). One of them uses a short action but a magnum bolt face the other one is a standard action and bolt face. Both of them are niche cartridges with passionate followers although the 280 AI is becoming more and more mainstream with the increasing availability of factory ammo (discounting COVID/politically charged era). Which one would you choose for a new build? Why?

I went through the same debate with myself a little over a year ago. I decided on 280AI simply because brass is easier to find and cheaper to buy and worst case scenario I can use 30-06, 270, 280Rem, etc to make my own brass. Can't do that with 7mm SAUM

 

[JAYgs8163]

In my mind component availability is the most important consideration.

The reason I went with 7WSM in a short action. After trying to secure brass for a 7SAUM build I scrapped it and went with the 7WSM as I have a short action ready to go. Brass and dies are easy to get.

 

[Winnett1]

So, I am curious of your opinion, or even better, experience. I think these cartridges are nearly identical on paper (please show me your data if you disagree). One of them uses a short action but a magnum bolt face the other one is a standard action and bolt face. Both of them are niche cartridges with passionate followers although the 280 AI is becoming more and more mainstream with the increasing availability of factory ammo (discounting COVID/politically charged era). Which one would you choose for a new build? Why?

They are both equally legit cartridges. The 280AI is becoming very popular and rightfully so. Have used a 280 for about 20. Very fond of it. If you can't hit what you are shooting at with a 280, you probably won't hit it with a 260AI. BUT , with the availability of factory AI brass, the 280AI would be a handloaders dream .
Just 1 mans opinion

 

[Bullmark]

Guys, would you be willing post some speeds and barrel lengths and twist rates for your respective rifles?

Bartlein 3B, 24" + 419 Hellfire brake. Shooting 168gr Berger VLDs over 57.0gr of H4350.....getting 2950fps, ES in the single digits, and after 40-45 rounds getting tight groups of .25-.35. I always see several other powders mentioned as being preferred before 4350. Maybe one day I'll try others but I'm happy as a clam with things just as they are. Recoil is very mild. It's a 8.5lb rifle naked.
One more thing, when the rifle was being built, we had a hard time finding an action that met our specs for one reason or another. I decided to use an Alamo "APR", mainly because it was available right then. It's not an inexpensive action but a fair Amt less than Defiance for example.
I could not be more impressed. As smooth running as any I've owned. I wouldn't shirk the chance of using one again.

 

[Panhandle Pete]

So, I am curious of your opinion, or even better, experience. I think these cartridges are nearly identical on paper (please show me your data if you disagree). One of them uses a short action but a magnum bolt face the other one is a standard action and bolt face. Both of them are niche cartridges with passionate followers although the 280 AI is becoming more and more mainstream with the increasing availability of factory ammo (discounting COVID/politically charged era). Which one would you choose for a new build? Why?

I had Shilen install 24" match grade barrels on two Remington 700 ADL's in 280AI in 1985- They have provided excellent results on antelope, deer and elk. My go to load is 160 grain Nosler Accubond over 61 grains H1000, easy to load and great terminal effect whether its 40 yards or 400 yards. Just my two cents.

 

[Bullmark]

The other thing that I've noticed with the 2 280 AI's I own and a couple others I've loaded for is that none of the four shot nearly as well at max loads/velocities as they have about 100 - 150 FPS BELOW what books show as max velocities

I know I could squeeze another 100-150fps out of mine, but it's consistently.25" grouping and the ES is single digits. Getting 2950fps....24" barrel, 168 VLDs. Recoil feels like a .243.

 

[Ucsdryder]

It was an easy choice for me. I had a magnum bolt face so I went saum. If I had a standard I would have gone 280ai.

 

[gslindy]

So, I am curious of your opinion, or even better, experience. I think these cartridges are nearly identical on paper (please show me your data if you disagree). One of them uses a short action but a magnum bolt face the other one is a standard action and bolt face. Both of them are niche cartridges with passionate followers although the 280 AI is becoming more and more mainstream with the increasing availability of factory ammo (discounting COVID/politically charged era). Which one would you choose for a new build? Why?

I picked up a Ruger No. 1 in 280AI just because. Very nice wood.

 

[RH300UM]

Guys, would you be willing post some speeds and barrel lengths and twist rates for your respective rifles?

View attachment 255216
7saum
Remmy short action with a wyatts extended mag

26 inch 9 twist pushing 180 grain Berger Hybrids @ 3014 fps with RL26 in ADG brass. 6 fps on the ES
Zero feed issues from the mag

 

[Buckys]

Right now, I would find reloading components and/or ammo before I purchased a new caliber rifle.

I did so for both my newer 280AI and 7WSM and very, very happy that I did so.

 

[Shortmagman]

I won't try to tell you which to build but I can give you some of my experiences that could help you decide. First I do not own a 280 AI but I have a 280 Rem that I have owned for over 10 years. and I have more than one Short Mag one of them being a Rem 700 Short Action in 7SAUM.
First when It comes to feeding the only short mag that I have had problems with is the Rem 700 7SAUM. My other shot mag guns are control feed Winchesters and a Ruger Mark II. These guns feed without problems.
With the 7saum I have shot many bullets out of this gun and it does shoot well for a factory gun. 160 Nosler Accubonds, and 160 Barnes TTSX work well and with a 24 inch barrel and 1 in 9 twist, I am able to get three shot groups at or near half inch at a velocity of just short of 3000 ft/sec. 140 Accubonds and 140 TTSX shoot at 3100+ ft/sec with good accuracy.
My 280 Rem is one of my favorite guns. It is a 700 CDL with a 24 inch barrel and it shoots great and feeds very well. I can't get quite as much velocity from it but it comes close with 140 grain bullet at 3000 ft/sec and 160 bullets at 2800+. I am shooting 150 Long range Accubonds with great accuracy but not great speed.
The 280 Rem can be loaded to approach the 280 AI. I never thought that the extra 100 ft/sec was worth the difficult of finding brass etc. . That is a decision that you have to make. I know that the 280 Rem and 280 AI are both great rounds. So is the 7SAUM.

 

[dfitz7604]

I have an AI. And I'm very happy with it. I cannot speak on the SAUM. I have zero experience with them.
I'm a little over 2900 FPS with 162 eld-x and 4831sc. I was up over 3k but the accuracy node I wanted was lower. I will admit though I had a new child at the time and I never truly worked with load development. Found one on a group test that was a little less than a half inch and just stopped messing with it. I've since taken it to 1280 yards several times.

 

[Wallie]

I chose a WSM case instead of the SAUM for my short action build. Mine is a 7mm/300WSM instead of regular'ole 7WSM.
I run 180g Berger HVLD's at about 2940 out of a 22" Bartlien with an Ultra 7, about 1/2". Less if I'm on my game, but I don't handle recoil well, and for me the recoil in this combo is significant.
complete rife weights under 12lbs, naked rifle under 10lbs.
I also fell in love with short fat cartridges. In a short action you will be limited somewhat by seating depth and finding ideal bullet jump. Also Mag capacity is noticeably limited, even vs a SAUM (.555" WSM diameter vs .535" SAUM diameter) it has always worked out for me where the SAUM is just smaller enough to fit one more round than the wsm.

The performance difference is negligible between SAUM and WSM, so that would depend on how much you value one more round of capacity, vs the easier brass availability and slight performance edge of the wsm.
For me I see no logical reason to build a short cartridge in a long action. I would start by deciding if I want long or short, if short then decide on SAUM or WSM.
If you are going to build on a long action I absolutely wouldn't build a WSM or SAUM, there just is no benefit or reason when compared to 28 Nosler, any of the RUM's, the 7LRM, 300 PRC, my current favorite the 7mm/300 PRC, or even the good ole 7 rem mag. Long action calibers will all fit and feed better than a short ran in a long, and won't have a performance handicap.
...Oh yea, I guess you could pick the 280AI, if you like short action performance out of a long action.