280 AI replacement for 270 Win.

[Pdvdh]

Re: RL17 in 280 RCBS Improved 30 Degree Shoulder

Found some Alliant RL17 and am headed out to give it a whirl now with 168gr Berger VLDs. Will add my MV data to this thread as collected over dual chronographs - with an update.

Update:

28" Brux Barrel
Lapua 30-06 brass fire-formed to 280 RCBS Improved.
Federal GM210M primers.
168 gr Berger VLDs seated into the lands 0.012"
Two shots fired at each powder charge.
Temperature = 38F

52.0 gr 2834 fps ES=29____2 shots in 3/4" @300yd____Mild Load
53.0 gr 2864 fps ES=8_____2 shots in 1 7/8" @300yd
54.0 gr 2945 fps ES=10____2 shots in 4 3/8" @300yd
55.0 gr 2957 fps ES=14____2 shots in 1 1/2" @300yd
55.5 gr 3007 fps ES=7_____2 shots in 3/4" @300yd____About Maximum Load.

55.5 grains RL17 is about maximum in my rifle. Starting to see and feel plunger mark on Lapua case heads at 55.5 gr.

I've obtained higher MVs (~25 fps higher) with maximum loads of Hodgdon Retumbo powder. ES/SD with RL17 is similar to Retumbo, with both powders yielding higher ES/SDs than I prefer for LRH.

Maximum loads of Hodgdon H1000 in this rifle run about 80-90 fps slower than RL17 & Retumbo, but ES and SDs with H1000 are reduced by about 50% in my rifle.

I'm not seeing 200 fps gains in MV with RL17. RL17 MV is ~25 fps less than I get with Retumbo. RL17 accuracy is similar to what I've experienced with Retumbo. H1000 yields less MV, lower ES/SD, and a little better accuracy. I'm leaning towards settling on H1000.

I'll be shooting some more RL17 to confirm these intial MV & accuracy data, and then to collect MVs at different temperatures.

Yesterday I talked to a guy who's purchased 20 lbs of RL17. He says in his rifles (30-06 class cartridge capacity) that he uses 1/2 grain less RL17 than IMR 4350, and he gets about 70-80 fps additional MV with the RL17 compared to IMR4350. He noted that he gets better consistency (reduced ES/SD) with RL17 compared to IMR 4350.

 

[jeffersonv]

Thanks MR.
I guess I got to try to get me some!
I'm stoking up my .270 for hogs as we speak.
Sounds like I'm in the ballpark with this rifle?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks MR.
I guess I got to try to get me some!
I'm stoking up my .270 for hogs as we speak.
Sounds like I'm in the ballpark with this rifle?

I think it should work well in the 270 which is basically a necked down .06 as I have read good reports with it in the .06 and it gave me 200 fps more velocity in my 25-06 than either H1000 or Retumbo, and Retumbo is by far the fastest powder listed on Nosler's web site (55 fps faster than Mag Pro, the next fastest). Having said that, it doesn't always seem to produce earth shattering velocities for everyone but usually as good or slightly better than, as in phorwath's case. My experience in the 25-06 and 300 WSM is an additional 200 fps, in the 300 RUM it matches H1000 and Retumbo with a lot less powder, which in the case of the 300 RUM isn't really a good thing. I like as close to 100% case capacity as possible.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks for the post Paul, interesting data. I'll be interested in the temp testing.

If my memory serves me well, I was getting about 3000 fps with 63 gr of IMR4350 and 160 NP's out of my 24" Ruger 7mm RM. I'm going to be testing RL17 in my S&W 7mm RM mag before too long. I want to give it a break-in first. I might try some Retumbo as well.

 

[X3MHunter]

600-49X with RL17 in 6.5X47 and 139 Lapua Scenars!

Well, no doubt Reloader 17 works well in a 6.5X47 Lapua. I shot a 300 yard F-Class match yesterday and shot a new range record at Bayou Rifle Club using RL17 and 139 Lapua Scenars. I shot a 600-49X, so no doubt RL17 can be accurate!

My 66 shot group (60 for score plus sighters) measured 2 inches, and at least 49 of them inside of a 1.5" group (size of the X ring).

-Erik

 

[trueblue]

My vote is for the 6.5-06 but AI it.

 

[woods]

This thread inspired me to try RL17 in my 280AI. I have loaded some at 52 gr, 52.5 gr and 53 gr and will shoot for velocity, not this weekend but the next.

Will let you know.

Thanks,
Some of the earlier members posting impressive MV never sounded back in. So they either aren't currently active on the Forum, didn't pursue it any further, or did pursue it and don't have anything earth shattering to report. If I can get some RL17, I may try it. Still working with a few powders that I currenlty have - Retumbo, H1000, IMR 4831SSC. Coming by gunpowder in Alaska can, at times, be difficult.

280 AI results today:

BULLET POWDER OAL CHARGE WEIGHT DISTANCE FROM LANDS VELOCITY

ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.0 0.030 2873
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.5 0.030 2892
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 53.0 0.030 2913

I am having real good luck with RL17 in my 30-06 but I am not sure I am going to pursue it in the 280AI since RL25 is doing a bang-up job, accuracy is great and velocity is right where I want it at 3000 fps. Perhaps I could get another 50 or 100 fps but..........why?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

280 AI results today:

BULLET POWDER OAL CHARGE WEIGHT DISTANCE FROM LANDS VELOCITY

ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.0 0.030 2873
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.5 0.030 2892
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 53.0 0.030 2913

I am having real good luck with RL17 in my 30-06 but I am not sure I am going to pursue it in the 280AI since RL25 is doing a bang-up job, accuracy is great and velocity is right where I want it at 3000 fps. Perhaps I could get another 50 or 100 fps but..........why?

Why??? ...Did you really ask that here on LRH?

Because it gets you farther down range? And faster means flatter and better wind bucking? And the bullet hits harder at the same range? If RL25 gets you good accuracy great... but if RL17 gets you good accuracy and better velocity... why not? Or... maintain your 3000 fps with less pressure for longer brass and barrel life.

 

[woods]

Why??? ...Did you really ask that here on LRH?

Because it gets you farther down range? And faster means flatter and better wind bucking? And the bullet hits harder at the same range? If RL25 gets you good accuracy great... but if RL17 gets you good accuracy and better velocity... why not? Or... maintain your 3000 fps with less pressure for longer brass and barrel life.

Yeah, sort of a dumb question, huh. I guess my intent was to say that it is not a priority since I am getting the results I want with RL25 which I seem to have about 10 pounds of. Now using RL17 in the 30-06 and getting 2750 fps with a 200 gr Accubond which I did today is about 100 fps than I was getting with RL22. And the 375 Ruger which I just got back from being rebarreled and using RL17 with the 270 gr TSX and trying to see what kind of velocity I can get there is more a priority.

Maybe later.

 

[cowboy]

Shot a 280 for 20 plus years - when it was time to rebarrel my smith talked me into going AI - never regretted it and haven't looked back once. I've taken way more than my share of antelope, deer, elk and black bear with this cartridge and used within it's limits it's as good of a non-magnum cartidge as there is. With the newer bullets and powders available today it's even more capable than when I started using it. I have never felt that using a 280AI was I ever under powered.

 

[Pdvdh]

280 AI results today:

BULLET POWDER OAL CHARGE WEIGHT DISTANCE FROM LANDS VELOCITY

ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.0 0.030 2873
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 52.5 0.030 2892
ACCU 160 RL17 3.347 53.0 0.030 2913

Thanks for posting your RL17 MVs. I shot my 280 RCBS with RL17 again this past weekend. I get ~30 fps higher MV with Hodgdon Retumbo than with RL17 shooting Berger 168 VLDs. The 7mm bore in this class cartridge must require a slightly slower burning powder than RL17. ES with RL17 looks to be similar to Retumbo, which is not as low as I'm looking for. Hodgdon H1000 is giving me about 80 fps less MV but reducing ES and SD by about 1/2 compared to RL17 and Retumbo. I'll play with RL17 a little more, but I'm leaning toward H1000 and living with the lower MV in order to obtain the lower ES and SD I'm getting with H1000. Accuracy is slightly better with H1000 also - maybe a by-product of the better MV consistency with H1000.

Might try RL17 in my 300 Win Mag... later.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I'll be doing a little experimenting with RL17 and Retumbo shooting 160 AB's out of my 7 RM, 24" barrel. Currently doing a little break-in with it so it may be a couple weeks or so before I have anything to report.

-Mark

 

[Pdvdh]

I'll be doing a little experimenting with RL17 and Retumbo shooting 160 AB's out of my 7 RM, 24" barrel. Currently doing a little break-in with it so it may be a couple weeks or so before I have anything to report.

-Mark

Cool. I own two 7mm Rem Mags so any RL17 information shared would be appreciated.

PS: I've got a butt-load of Retumbo data shooting the Berger 168 VLDs out of my factory Tikka T3 7mm Rem Mag. I stumbled into the Retumbo during load development only to learn after-the-fact that "The Best of the West" folks had also settled on Retumbo with 168 VLDs as their optimal load for the 7mm Rem Mags. I can send my Excel spreadsheet to you, if you have the interest. No reason Retumbo shouldn't be a great powder with 160 Accbs also.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I appreciate it Paul, but at this point I'm not looking at the Bergers. I like a little more controled expansion. If I went with a Berger, I would probaly go with the 180 for a little more subdued velocity and a little more mass. If I could get 3000 fps with a 180 with Reumbo or RL17, that would be something to consider. Sure would be nice to gat a VLD in a controled expansion package.