.280 AI controversy explained ...

[varmintH8R]

I am checking out of this thread, and will spend my time in the "Isreali - Palestinian Peace" forum instead. Sorry, I just think there is a better chance for a peaceful agreement and understanding over there. I will miss you guys though.

Original PO Ackley 14 thou longer case till I die! Come and get me you SAMMI chamber insurgent scum!!!

 

[bigngreen]

I find it odd that the most bent guy about this also has no use for a head space gauge!lightbulb

 

[woods]

I have plenty of gauges, just not what some would call "headspace gauges". Hornady calls them headspace gauges but they really don't measure headspace, particularly on belted cases.

They however do very well at measuring how much the shoulder expands from one firing to the next

But of course you know this and just want to join the dart throwing crowd

When I start reaming chambers I suppose I will then need your "headspace gauges"

 

[yawn]

Let me just ask it the way. Is there anyone out there that does not believe that there is and old Ackley chamber and a new Nosler ackley chamber being .014 shorter. If not, it is a real funny that a lot of people before us have written about it several years ago and they saw the same thing and put out an alert. If I had never tried Nosler brass I would have never had known there was a problem. Read this again Real slow from top to bottom.
280 Ackley Improved Alert | GunsmithTalk
If you can't under stand that the old chambers are different you are just stirring the pot. I don't understand what your purpose is?

If that link is not enough, just google 280 Ackley alert and there are lots of people on other web sites that say there is a difference from Nosler SAMMI and the old way of doing a 280 Ackley chamber. I myself am not going to try and explain the differnce anymore. I don't care if you if you get it or not, I can't help you. I am done with this. gun)

Can you please explain why Gunsmtih talk are held up as being an advocate of the difference when after doing some actual physical testing they clearly recant their original position and say there is no difference? Because this and a few other questions that Iv asked but cant get answered are just adding to the confusion. JE Custom backed away, woods calls bullchips and smoke and mirriors, and others just cry " there is a difference" Id just like a friendly discussion and to get some answers. And yes I have experience with 4 280ai rifles, 2 customs from 2 different shops a M54 and a kimber. The cooper is mine the the others I had for load development.

 

[bigngreen]

I have plenty of gauges, just not what some would call "headspace gauges". Hornady calls them headspace gauges but they really don't measure headspace, particularly on belted cases.

They however do very well at measuring how much the shoulder expands from one firing to the next

But of course you know this and just want to join the dart throwing crowd

When I start reaming chambers I suppose I will then need your "headspace gauges"

You don't even know what you don't know!! How do you explain the guys who don't have this issue using both kinds of brass? How do you explain the video showing the head space gauge clearly marked zeroing out on each others chamber? How can you call BS when you don't even posses the basic gauging that would allow you to know EXACTLY what you have!!

 

[TOM H]

I feel honored that you are taking the time to do searches on my past posts, even if you are looking for ammunition to attack me (guess you feel you are losing the battle on the issues in THIS thread)

Yes I do have a tight chamber. There is very little expansion in the case body but the ONLY reason that creates a problem is because my Redding Body Die does not have small enough interior dimensions to size the pressure ring. The problem is with the die, not the chamber

Do you have a problem with tight custom chambers?

So you found a thread about the do-nuts I developed in 280AI brass (appears Tnwhip has the same problem) where I clearly said I preferred 280 Rem brass, claimed that I had said I "had no problems"

Now you found a thread where I attempted to explain how a problem can occur if you have a tight chamber and a large die

Keep trying, maybe the 3rd time will be the charm for you, although it does begin to appear like this is becoming a personal attack on me. Typical modus operandi for liberals; can't fight in the arena of factual information so attack the credibility of the other party

Just like your buddy STRAW MAN FEENIX.

This thread would work a lot better if you would bring personal experience with the 280AI like Cockcroft, Tnwhip and I. If you don't have any direct personal experience then the thread would work a lot better if you would STFU

Woods, I have 280AI and I've followed your post on Nosler,24Hr and here and I've seen your groups.

You had according to your post no problems with Nosler 280AI brass and I have no problems with it and you can check my post here my wife has 280AI chamber 2007 and I have no problems chambering Nosler 280AI. Like you I had to fire form brass with that rifle and that rifle wasn't build to SAAMI 280AI spec but Manson reamer was used.

I'm the guy that loads 280AI with 160gr AB @ 56gr/R-17 @ 3046fps.

Had I not be able to shoot Nosler brass in my wife's 280AI it wouldn't of bother me since I fire form enough brass and I'm sure you did. When my rifle was build I send along dummy rds for throating using Nosler 280AI brass and if there was a problem first one I'd be talking to is the gunsmith.

I think had some followed your post like I did and reason I did along with JD338 on Nosler forum was for loading data that you both had and then your posting of those three cases is little odd. I think you should of given little more history on your 280AI.

Good part is your still shooting that 280AI and I'm enjoying mine also.

 

[woods]

You don't even know what you don't know!! How do you explain the guys who don't have this issue using both kinds of brass?

Could be several reasons

They have the new SAAMI chamber
They don't have the gauges to measure shoulder movement
They just didn't notice the excess shoulder expansion

How do you explain the guys (3 on this forum) who have paid attention and DO have this problem?

How do you explain the video showing the head space gauge clearly marked zeroing out on each others chamber?

I don't, makes no sense to me since I do not use those type of gauges

He did use NORMA 280AI brass which may be different than the NOSLER 280AI

He put the 280 REMINGTON brass in the traditional gauge with no head space and put the NORMA 280AI in the SAAMI gauge - both were flush at the back as they should be. If he had put a 280AI NOSLER brass in the traditional gauge then there might have been a difference

When he switched the cases/gauges, did the head of the case go in further or can it? Is it tight to the shoulder/neck junction on the gauge?

I don't know cause I wasn't there and it was not very detailed or have very much explanation, much like the discussions from those who say the .014" does not exist. Just here it is, nuff said!

How can you call BS when you don't even posses the basic gauging that would allow you to know EXACTLY what you have!!

I use the Hornady gauges. Essentially you use a collet that hits on the datum line (or close to it)

From my records (I wish I had a piece of unfired Nosler 280AI brass so I could measure again) the gauge read 2.1350" on new brass (after rezeroing the caliper with collet attached and subtracting the 2" for the collet) and 2.1520" after the 3rd firing (fully expanded). A difference of .017", it was .014" after the first firing

So what's to not understand?

 

[woods]

Woods, I have 280AI and I've followed your post on Nosler,24Hr and here and I've seen your groups.

You had according to your post no problems with Nosler 280AI brass and I have no problems with it and you can check my post here my wife has 280AI chamber 2007 and I have no problems chambering Nosler 280AI. Like you I had to fire form brass with that rifle and that rifle wasn't build to SAAMI 280AI spec but Manson reamer was used.

I'm the guy that loads 280AI with 160gr AB @ 56gr/R-17 @ 3046fps.

Had I not be able to shoot Nosler brass in my wife's 280AI it wouldn't of bother me since I fire form enough brass and I'm sure you did. When my rifle was build I send along dummy rds for throating using Nosler 280AI brass and if there was a problem first one I'd be talking to is the gunsmith.

I think had some followed your post like I did and reason I did along with JD338 on Nosler forum was for loading data that you both had and then your posting of those three cases is little odd. I think you should of given little more history on your 280AI.

Good part is your still shooting that 280AI and I'm enjoying mine also.

Tom

Do you measure your case shoulder expansion on new Nosler 280AI cases? If so, how much expansion do you get?

56 gr RL17 with the Nosler 160 gr Accubond is exactly what I use (Fed215M primers)

The problem is not that anyone CAN NOT shoot the Nosler 280AI brass in any gun, it is just that it will cause flattened primers and probably more thinning at the pressure ring. Once it is fire formed, it does not matter. Don't expect to be able to chamber a fire formed case from an older Ackley chamber in a SAAMI chamber.

What 3 cases are you talking about? Do you have a link or explanation?

I believe I outlined my 280AI history in post #4

 

[MSLRHunter]

Dang! Now y'all have me paranoid about my 280AI. Mine was built with the new Saami chamber (PTG reamer) because I want to use the nosler 280AI brass. Just out of curiosity I'll measure some new unfired cases and some fired cases and post the results tomorrow. Regardless of whether you have the old chamber or the new, it is a great cartridge!

 

[Tnwhip]

Sorry you feel that way, but that's your problem not mine.

I never said I had a problem and needed help..

Frankly my dear I don't give a ****.

 

[FEENIX]

Frankly my dear I don't give a ****.

 

[Trickymissfit]

what kinda bothers me a lot about this .014" issue is not so much the case length, but a couple other issues.

* sooner or later somebody is going to try loading charges designed for the older chamber. Might work just fine, and might send you to the emergency room with the short chamber.

* assuming you have a real Ackley chamber, and not the imposter. You decide to save time and use the Nosler brass that is made out of spec. Shoots just fine, but there's another issue that's not been brought up in this thread. Even if the bullet is seated so far out that it touches the lands, you are going to erode the chamber neck just in front of the throat. Kinda like shooting a lot of 22 shorts in a long rifle chamber. How much is hard to say, but you will.
gary

 

[Buttermilk]

I have shot Nosler 280AI brass in a chamber that was the "traditional" Ackley chamber with zero issues.

I also fireformed R-P 280 Rem brass in this chamber with zero issues.


Regards,
Rog

 

[FEENIX]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnwhip
One thing about it. My fault, your fault, my gunsmiths fault, nobody's fault. My rifle is not a SAMMI chamber. it is .014 longer, just like a lot of 280 Ack. rifles out there. I except that fact. I will fireform all my cases out of 280 or 270 brass just like they have been doing for 50 years. If others rifles can use the Nosler 280 Ack.IMP. brass that is fine with me. My case holds a little more powder, Na Na Na. LOL

You sir is a better man for accepting the fact and more importantly recognizing the fault.

I originally considered .280 AI but went for .270 AI instead and couldn't be happier.

I recant my above comment as I am obviously wrong to give such a compliment.