280 ackley load data

[Casing]

I have a 1:10 twist, 26" bbl. and I am getting great groups with the 168VLD. I don't know if the extra 2" would make a difference but it's worth a try.

On another note. I was hunting in negative temperatures over the weekend with my .280AI. I had several opportunities to take deer at all kinds of ranges, and I did kill three, but not before hitting dirt in front of several deer with the correct dope dialed in for the range I was shooting at. RL22 must lose a lot of it's power in extreme cold and I think I'm going to get away from it because of my experience.

I had a great load with 62.5 grains of RL22 and 140 grain Nosler Accubond. 5 shots around 1/2 inch and 3200 fps. I sighted my rifle in at temps around 75-80 degrees. You couldn't ask for a better group. I also have a friend with a Winchester pre 64 model 70 custom barreled in 280 AI. I loaded the same load for him and we were both excited that we had the load! I went to the range just before deer season to check my sight-in at about 50 degrees. My point of impact had changed almost 3 inches!......................My buddy with the Winchester called me and told me he had the same experience! I like the velocity with RL22 but I wanna be able to hit where I aim! I have since switched to H4831sc and get great groups. Velocity is just a little less but I know where my bullet is gonna hit and group is 5/8'' and less at 100.

 

[Ranger1992]

Troutslayer2, Thanks for the info but I'm not willing to rebarrel this rifle. It's a cooper excalibur and it's my new hunting rifle and I hunt mostly wilderness pretty deep so the length and weight are a pretty important factor for me. I haven't given up totally on the bergers yet because I had some fair results at lower powder charges, around 58 grains but I was looking for more velocity and the the faster I pushed them the bigger the groups got. It was interesting because the groups where perfect triangles but just got big, like 6 inches at 100yards. The RL22 powder sensitivity to temperature is somewhat familiar to me because I read about it while choosing my load recipe but I could not get h4831sc to shoot as well as the RL22. I spent several weeks working on the load development for this rifle and the load in my previous post is the best I could get before hunting season. I am no expert on developing super accurate loads as this is my first "precision" rifle. I still have a strong desire to be able to shoot the Berger 168 vld but as I understand it some rifles just don't like some bullets and the results I've seen are not in favor of success with this one. I may try the 140 vld at some point but I hestiate to do so becasue i hunt Elk too and feel that weight is too light.

 

[Forrest Ebert]

If one is going to hunt in cold weather conditions with the 280AI one should not work up loads with Reloader powder and two try magnum primers instead of reg large rifle as this will help ignite the powder more efficiently than the standard with a case full of powder. Try Retumbo, H4831 (like some have already ). I use 63.0 grains of Retumbo with a 168 Berger Hunting VLD and a magnum primer and it works perfectly in 17 degree temps. with point of impact being perfect. Good luck to all with your loads.

 

[Ranger1992]

Thanks Forrest, your comments make sense. Like I said i had to pick something before hunting season and I was out of time. I do plan to go back and work with h4831 and I will try the retumbo. My feeling is that if anything is going to solve my issues with the Berger bullets it will be using a different powder. I will also try the mag primers for this next round also. One thing that I did not mention in this string of comments is that on the Cooper rifle the throat is very long. I cannot even get close to the lands and be able to cycle rounds through the magazine. I measured it a while back but have forgotten the distance. It seems like it was very extreme. I read the article from berger about jumping the bullets but the distances they suggested I could not even get and still function with the magazine. I did have one group that was about an inch at 100 but I believe that it was a fairly low powder charge. The RL22 load was extremely tight so I was stuck on using it till I found something else.
Thanks again and if you have some comments on the extreme distance to the lands I'd appreciate it.

 

[Derek M.]

If one is going to hunt in cold weather conditions with the 280AI one should not work up loads with Reloader powder and two try magnum primers instead of reg large rifle as this will help ignite the powder more efficiently than the standard with a case full of powder.

That is exactly what I was/am going to recommend. Glad I went ahead and finished reading the thread. I don't think some loaders understand just how SLOW Reloder 22 really is. .....or H1000, Retumbo, and even 4831. Many many years ago, 4831 was the slowest you could get and even then a lot of loaders used magnum primers with it back in the day.

So, let me say this; I think it is reasonable to go to a magnum primer when you shoot a long, skinny case and a slow powder. There's nothing wrong with this technique, ESPECIALLY when hunting in temps 30 degrees and cooler.

I switched from 210M to 215M quite some time ago when using some of the 4831 loads and anything slower in many if not most of my rifles and I'm glad I did. Not only did accuracy improve, I get to use a little less powder with equal or higher velocities. Example: 30.06/180 bullet/Re22/215M primer. Same with several of my 270s. I would not even consider a non-magnum primer in a 280AI with a slow burning powder. That's a nice long column of powder and I want a big blast of ignition to launch that bullet.

 

[Troutslayer2]

Troutslayer2, Thanks for the info but I'm not willing to rebarrel this rifle.

Ranger, I wasn't suggesting a rebarrel. I mistook what you said thinking that you meant you couldn't shoot that bullet because of your 1:10 twist rate. Others have claimed that you need a faster rate of twist to shoot the VLD, despite what it says on the box. I was just saying that I shoot that same bullet with a 1:10 and get good results.

 

[Ranger1992]

Well it was my conclusion that the twist in this specific rifle was the reason that I could not hold groups with that bullets. I am resolved to try again and the input I've gotten here has given me some new direction. Thanks. Your group at 300 is quite impressive to say the least. Have you chronographed your velocity? I'm guessing that at that powder charge out of my rifle the velocity would be around 2700fps and yours would be more with a 26in barrell. I'll try the lower powder charges and chrono but I don't have much time to shoot this winter it may be several months. Thanks again for the input and the photo.

 

[twofish]

Anyone have any experience with IMR4831? If I remember correctly it is slightly faster the H4831.

A buddy of mine seems to have had good luck with this powder. I will ask him about the specifics the next time I speak with him. He is a pretty big RL22 fan for the 280AI as well but has had similar experience with temperature/velocity issues.

Thanks,

twofish

 

[yawn]

I have been using a cooper excalibur 280ai for a couple of years now. Vit N165 has been the most consistant for the heavier bullets. .Pushing a 168VLD with 60.5 gr in front of a Fed 215m primer shoots very well with a 40 thou jump at a touch over 2900fps. Similar with the 162 a max.Too long for the mag so I use 140 TTSX with a max load of N560 for most hunting and a few VLD's or amax's in my pocket for the longer shots.Keeping the vlds in a wallet in my pocket also helps level out any temp variation.

 

[twofish]

How far off the lands are you seating the TTSX 140's?

My experience has been that they normally like a pretty good jump.

 

[yawn]

Yes most shoot better with a good jump. the same 40 thou off works very well for the ackley.I use the 85 gr tsx in .243 50 thou off

 

[wbuck]

I have a 280 ack. that loves H4831sc and I do to for its consistancy with temp. sensitivity and velocity extreme spreads. I have shot in temps from 80deg down to 29deg with very little velocity change maybe 20fps.

H4831 62.5gr 3080 to 3060 140 SGK 24" pac nor tube
shoots 2.5" groups at 500yds

Wade

 

[Brute]

61.0 grs. H4350 pushing a 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip is death and destruction on whitetails out to 500yds. in my experience. Win. brass and CCI 200 LR primers.

 

[andykusaf]

I have done a lot of testing with the 280 AI, one thing i learned what works in one rifle will not work in another as custom barrel makers turn out diffrent specs with all barrels they produce and install. My favorite custom rifle that shoots the best is a Remington 24" Shaw barrel on a HS stock and timney 2oz trigger. This rifle hates all powders except IMR 4831 and the barnes X bullet or Nosler Ballistic tip as it prints these bullets under .75 and many times under .50" with 57.5 Gr of IMR 4831. Two other ackleys i have seen shot Burger bullets and R 22 the best. Like a woman no two are alike take your AI to the range and test out several powders bullet combinations and find the one that works. I have shot much game from the mountain Zebra in Namibia to small springbuck and elk and here to tell all of you that there are much more bad shots then bad calibers or bullets. The barnes 140 gr x bullet dropped elk at over 400 yards with one shot and did the same with a large zebra at 240 yards what more can you ask. Go work up your load and post it here and if you want to see my pictures look me up on facebook under andy Kyriakidis. Keep hunting and lets vote Obama out in 2012