.270wcf vs 6.8 Western & 270 WSM

[Eric Alexander]

That's not the point if my question. Why is the author saying that a normal 270 doesn't give it enough speed? getting 2700+ fps for these heavy bullets is no problem for a .270. That's not fast enough to make them work?

 

[Raudy707]

The 270 win can push a 165 or 170 grain VLD style bullet just as fast as 6.5 CM can push a 143 or 147. So the author is just admiring the velocity of the Western and WSM and not actually seeing the potential of the 80 year old 270 win. A 26" 1:8 twist 270 WCF can still do plenty of long range performance with the heavier bullets. Rldr 26 or 23 really bring this old dog to life. Great cartridge. Great killer. Don't let magazine authors get to you. A lot of nonsense out there for paychecks.

 

[Eric Alexander]

Run the ballistics and you'll answer your own question.
There's certainly a significant gain running those bullets 200 fps faster, but depending on the ranges you plan on hunting they'll be ok in a 270 win

that's something to come to grips with: when is the extra 200 fps important? Where does it cross the threshold of real world experience so that you are persuaded to go magnum so you can own that difference?

Not a rhetorical question. I'm going to put a 26" 1:8 twist barrel on my action. I can chamber it in 270wcf and learn about living with these new 165-170 bullets. Plan A.
Then the extra 200fps option presents itself. Not much more work for the smith. Chambering is chambering. 270 Wby, WSM, Nosler, meh, just reaming. But now need new dies, brass, maybe diff powder, etc. ... I'll have to open bolt face. Still not an overwhelming set of hurdles nor amount of money. But why, I asks. What are the circumstances that I will encounter that would justify the effort? A little less drop, a little more energy upon arrival? Like I said, 'Where's the threshold that overcomes the inertia?'. What persuades others to make the jump? More horsepower always better?
oh, well

 

[bullet man]

I've shot 170 gr bullets with my 700 adl Remington it's just bs they put out there so you'll run out and spend some money on a new barrel. I'm with you on the 27 Nosler I can't get any info u can't even get a price etc on brass on their website if they had brass available I would already own one. Oh yeah at 100 yards they grouped about half-inch the 170 gr loads in my Remington that is.

 

[TRexF16]

"At best the 6.8 & 270 wsm add 200 fps over a .270wcf."

270Win is a great cartridge, but, nonetheless, bumping up speed by 200fps is a significant gain.

And, if you put a long heavy bullet in a 270Win SAAMI-spec chamber, your gonna lose some powder capacity. Maybe this is what the author was referring to when he said a 270Win just ain't ever gonna get you there?

I have not gone and pulled up the diagrams, but I would bet blind that more case capacity will be taken up by the shank of a heavy VLD in the 270 WSM or 6.8W than the 270 Win, if all are in their respective SAMMI chambers. Just my hunch mentally picturing it. Even 150 LRABs go a long way into my 270 WSM's case, but the 270 Win has that nice long neck...

What about a .270 ai to get the extra speed?

A .270 Win AI is only going to pick up a few FPS (like no more than 50, MAX) when run at the same pressure as the plain 270 Win. It's just physics. And when you start out with a 65K PSI cartridge there's just not much room to grow, as opposed to say. a 30-06 AI, which can pick up a lot, but only if you bump it up a fair bit more than the 60K PSI limit of the basic '06.

I'd be real interested to see what the basic .270 Win will do with these bullets and the wunder powders in the 26" rifles being discussed here. John Barsness got 2801 FPS and .84" avg. group with the 170 grain Berger EOL Elite Hunter with 56 gr RL-26 in the 22" barrel of the Mossberg Patriot test rifle in his Oct '19 Handloader article. [EDIT: and that was a 1:10 twist barrel]
No doubt at all the basic .270 Win can get the good out of these high BC bullets.

Cheers,
Rex

 

[DJ Fergus]

I've been reading about this 6.8 W and the 270wsm and .270 wcf. ... and came across an interesting comment. The issue was about the new high BC .277 bullets and mentioned the 165ablr and 175vld needing 1:8.5 or 1:8 twist. OK, fine. Then the article tossed in this tidbit:

"The ole .270 WCF can't push these new, heavier bullets fast enough to make them useful, regardless of twist."

Fast enough? A .270 should have no problem pushing these out at 2600-2700 fps. What gives?

At best the 6.8 & 270 wsm add 200 fps over a .270wcf.
Is the author high? According to him, rebarreling my .270 with a 1:8 twist barrel is a waste of time. Doesn't ring true with me.
Comments?

The author of that statement would be just another chuckle headed article writer. Most 6.5 creedmoors push factory ammo to around 2600-2700 fps with 140gr bullets. These same chuckle head writers seems to think 6.5 140s at that velocity is supremely adequate. I don't know why that fellow thinks a 165-175 gr .277 bullets with equivalent b.c. at similar velocities would be any less adequate. He just had to type something, little did he know that it revealed how much he doesn't know.

 

[TOM H]

I have 270 with 1/10 twist Lilja barrel @ 25". I'm in the mid 2800fps with 160gr PT. The 165gr ABLR is just .215" longer than PT I have and I long throated my 270.

I also have 270Wby with 1/10 twist Rock Creek barrel @ 26". I haven't Chrono any loads yet but I've shot few 165gr ABLR 100/200yds. I live almost 8K here in Co been getting little winter.

Myself I like my 270 as is. I'll most like start early spring shooting Wby with 165gr and if things look good I'll test at 9K.

 

[bullet man]

The author of that statement would be just another chuckle headed article writer. Most 6.5 creedmoors push factory ammo to around 2600-2700 fps with 140gr bullets. These same chuckle head writers seems to think 6.5 140s at that velocity is supremely adequate. I don't know why that fellow thinks a 165-175 gr .277 bullets with equivalent b.c. at similar velocities would be any less adequate. He just had to type something, little did he know that it revealed how much he doesn't know.

you read my mind all along that's what I've been thinking ever since they came out with that round

 

[Eric Alexander]

The 270 win can push a 165 or 170 grain VLD style bullet just as fast as 6.5 CM can push a 143 or 147. So the author is just admiring the velocity of the Western and WSM and not actually seeing the potential of the 80 year old 270 win. A 26" 1:8 twist 270 WCF can still do plenty of long range performance with the heavier bullets. Rldr 26 or 23 really bring this old dog to life. Great cartridge. Great killer. Don't let magazine authors get to you. A lot of nonsense out there for paychecks.

yeah, i didn't mind him saying positive things about the magnums, but I couldn't understand why he was pushing the .270 as incompetent with these new bullets. Didn't make sense.

 

[Raudy707]

Dude clearly doesnt understand ballistics or bullet composition and chemistry. Those vld bullets are all soft and don't require high velocity to perform. Nosler ABLR, Berger's and ELD-X all open easily down to 1800 fps. I like 2000 fps but that's just me.

 

[TRexF16]

I have not gone and pulled up the diagrams, but I would bet blind that more case capacity will be taken up by the shank of a heavy VLD in the 270 WSM or 6.8W than the 270 Win, if all are in their respective SAMMI chambers. Just my hunch mentally picturing it. Even 150 LRABs go a long way into my 270 WSM's case, but the 270 Win has that nice long neck...

Rex

I wrote the above without any actual proof, just my gut feel from picturing it in my mind, and I am not normally a fan of doing things like that. So, curious now, I went and checked the intrusion below the neck with a Nosler 150 LRAB in both the 270 WSM and the 270 Win when they were both set at their respective listed max OALs of 2.86" and 3.34". And yes, there is more of the powder space below the neck taken up by the bullet shank in the WSM. 150 LRAB was the highest BC .270 bullets I had on hand but any of the heavier ones would of course extend a proportional amount into both cases.
Didn't want to just spout off without backing it up.

Cheers,
Rex

 

[Raudy707]

Yeah 270 WIn has a long neck. It's a well designed cartridge and really not much room for improvement. The improvements need to be made on the manufacturing side. If gunmakers would get together and make 1:7 twist barrels standard for 257 cal and 1:8 for .277 cal rifles then we have a completely different animal. 25-06 and 270 win look really good with higher BC bullets.

 

[can1010]

I wrote the above without any actual proof, just my gut feel from picturing it in my mind, and I am not normally a fan of doing things like that. So, curious now, I went and checked the intrusion below the neck with a Nosler 150 LRAB in both the 270 WSM and the 270 Win when they were both set at their respective listed max OALs of 2.86" and 3.34". And yes, there is more of the powder space below the neck taken up by the bullet shank in the WSM. 150 LRAB was the highest BC .270 bullets I had on hand but any of the heavier ones would of course extend a proportional amount into both cases.
Didn't want to just spout off without backing it up.
View attachment 238558
Cheers,
Rex

and your reasoning is absolutely useless because usable case capacity is all that matters. using your numbers the 270 win 56.7 gr and the 270 wsm 68.7. you guys are forgetting that the writers have to be very careful about any data that they publish it has to be within saami specs. and lawyer proof so the unknowing don't blow there gun up or worse and have law suites. besides if you stay within saami spec he is right the 270 win is not the best choice for the long, heavy, high bc bullets and true long range hunting

 

[TRexF16]

can1010,
I don't have any "reasoning" that is a candidate to be useless or otherwise. I was merely responding to a post on the first page of this thread that stated:

"270Win is a great cartridge, but, nonetheless, bumping up speed by 200fps is a significant gain.
And, if you put a long heavy bullet in a 270Win SAAMI-spec chamber, your gonna lose some powder capacity. Maybe this is what the author was referring to when he said a 270Win just ain't ever gonna get you there?"

I simply responded with the fact that putting a long heavy bullet into the .270 Win case will actually result in the loss of less powder capacity than putting the same bullet into the 270 WSM. There is no reasoning involved, just measurement, and I have no dog in the fight. Just wanted to point out that there is a fallacy in that basic premise.

My statement has nothing to do with the basic capacity of the cases - of course the big ones are bigger, and faster - I was just pointing out the 270 Win loses less to stuffing in a long bullet. That's all.

All the best,
Rex