.270wcf vs 6.8 Western & 270 WSM

[Capt RB]

I shoot my 270 w/140s at 3140. I hit pressure at 3220. To think I would lose 4-500fps in 30 grains of bullet weight is ludicrous. I ran some 150 interbonds up to 3150 but I couldn't get them to perform the way I wanted. I would think 2900 is well within what a straight 270 w/26" barrel will do. Mine is 24" btw.

 

[can1010]

if you look in any loading manual or on Hodgen site your way over pressure wheather your brass shows sings or you want to admit it. I am guilty of this as much as the next guy but trashing a writer for staying safe is just crazy. before my old smith retired and mover down south I had the chance to work with his pressure trace on a couple of different cartridges factory and wildcats and I can honestly say what you see on your brass and what is reality are two totally different things. the magazine articles have to be safe and lawyer proof

 

[Raudy707]

Here's the information Berger provided...lotsa 2750 to 2850 fps on this chart. Authors, lawyers whatever a guy's opinions are don't change the numbers. Those numbers = good performance. Period.

 

[Capt RB]

if you look in any loading manual or on Hodgen site your way over pressure wheather your brass shows sings or you want to admit it. I am guilty of this as much as the next guy but trashing a writer for staying safe is just crazy. before my old smith retired and mover down south I had the chance to work with his pressure trace on a couple of different cartridges factory and wildcats and I can honestly say what you see on your brass and what is reality are two totally different things. the magazine articles have to be safe and lawyer proof

Running Rl26 and a longer coal I'm at max in the berger's book with my top velocities where it shoots well is .5 or more below that. And every bullet is at a higher velocity than what is now on the hodgdon site for all of their powders.
THe above chart showsa coal less than 3.4 for the 170. I'm at 3.395 for the 140. Move that out to 3.5-3.6 and you would pick up 50-75fps with less pressure than what they are seeing at the posted if the barrel is throated for that.

 

[can1010]

lets take the chart above there is about a 2800 fps at max load in a 26 inch barrel. most 270 win have a 22-24 inch barrel. most guns don't preform at there best at max pressure normally somewhere in the pressure mid range. the berger has a short bearing surface and the 175 matrix or the pictures of the 175 sierra have a lot longer bearing surface. so lets be realistic and give a 2650 fps enter that in the berger ballistic calculator and at 400 yards it is falling out of the sky and at 500 it is a brick
I am not against the 270 win but lets be realistic it is not a long range gun with high bc, heavy bullets. it is a great 300-400 yard gun with 130-140 class bullets

 

[Muddyboots]

Just double checked data, 24" Shaw barrel on a Savage 110C 52 yrs old, 3.415 max COAL for this DBM. Nosler 150 ABLR RL26=3080 no pressure. Hornady 145ELD-X with RL26=3100 no pressure. Book data not redneck by gosh by golly. So if I swap out barrel as I am thinking to 1:8 and 26" and long DBM COAL will be interesting. This thread has my interest and I will see if I can sample pack to run ladder. Just curious on outcome.

 

[can1010]

you want some 165 matrix and 170 berger to run some ladders just PM me an address I have plenty just cover shipping

 

[Muddyboots]

you want some 165 matrix and 170 berger to run some ladders just PM me an address I have plenty just cover shipping

Sent you PM! Very generous offer, I made offer back in case you have interest, thanks!

 

[TOM H]

Running Rl26 and a longer coal I'm at max in the berger's book with my top velocities where it shoots well is .5 or more below that. And every bullet is at a higher velocity than what is now on the hodgdon site for all of their powders.
THe above chart showsa coal less than 3.4 for the 170. I'm at 3.395 for the 140. Move that out to 3.5-3.6 and you would pick up 50-75fps with less pressure than what they are seeing at the posted if the barrel is throated for that.

I have Berger book and I have loaded some 140gr VLD and their top velocity is 3058fps with 26" barrel and COAL 3.340".

can1010,
I don't have any "reasoning" that is a candidate to be useless or otherwise. I was merely responding to a post on the first page of this thread that stated:

"270Win is a great cartridge, but, nonetheless, bumping up speed by 200fps is a significant gain.
And, if you put a long heavy bullet in a 270Win SAAMI-spec chamber, your gonna lose some powder capacity. Maybe this is what the author was referring to when he said a 270Win just ain't ever gonna get you there?"

I simply responded with the fact that putting a long heavy bullet into the .270 Win case will actually result in the loss of less powder capacity than putting the same bullet into the 270 WSM. There is no reasoning involved, just measurement, and I have no dog in the fight. Just wanted to point out that there is a fallacy in that basic premise.

My statement has nothing to do with the basic capacity of the cases - of course the big ones are bigger, and faster - I was just pointing out the 270 Win loses less to stuffing in a long bullet. That's all.

All the best,
Rex

The 270, 150gr ABLR I have are 1.420" and 165gr are 1.515" and not sure .095" capacity would make much of a difference. The Berger 170 gr is 1.490" again not sure what .070" be major problem. I've got Berger manual and the data for 270 with 170gr almost look like data from their 150gr bullet.

 

[Capt RB]

lets take the chart above there is about a 2800 fps at max load in a 26 inch barrel. most 270 win have a 22-24 inch barrel. most guns don't preform at there best at max pressure normally somewhere in the pressure mid range. the berger has a short bearing surface and the 175 matrix or the pictures of the 175 sierra have a lot longer bearing surface. so lets be realistic and give a 2650 fps enter that in the berger ballistic calculator and at 400 yards it is falling out of the sky and at 500 it is a brick
I am not against the 270 win but lets be realistic it is not a long range gun with high bc, heavy bullets. it is a great 300-400 yard gun with 130-140 class bullets

Reread the data the Rl26 load is stated at 2899 not 2800

 

[Jud96]

That Berger data reinforces my original thoughts. A .270 with a 1-8 26" barrel running 170s and RL26 will do 2800-2850. That's a long range cartridge. Maybe not a magnum, but that will run with a .284 and right on the heels of a .280 Ackley.

 

[can1010]

2800 is a good average for all powders listed. I should have wrote that better my fault. but I think most understand what I was saying and not just trying to cherry pick data to match your beliefs

 

[Capt RB]

2800 is a good average for all powders listed. I should have wrote that better my fault. but I think most understand what I was saying and not just trying to cherry pick data to match your beliefs

That data is at a coal that is .2-300 shorter than what will fit in my chamber. You add that much room in the case you drop pressure then add powder to come back to that pressure your speed will be higher. I use TUngstun disulfide Wsc or Danzac whatever you want to call it. when a barrel seasons in the pressure drops when you get back to pressure the speed increase is significant. Or you can shoot the same speed at much lower pressure and better barrel life.

 

[DJ Fergus]

@can1010 , I agree with you that the 270 Winchester in factory Norm with 130s & 140s is a decent 300-400 yard performer.

@Jud96 I agree with you as well. If a person wants to go with enough twist to run a 170 eol and pair it up with RL26 he can certainly have a long range performer with some attention to details.

There's a member here who killed an elk just a short while back with a 7mm-08 & 162 eld-m past 800 yards. If memory serves me correctly he was pushing the 162 in the neighborhood of 2700 fps give or take.

I am neither a 270 Winchester enthusiast nor opponent. I haven't owned one in a long time. I would consider a 6.8 Western just to tinker around with if I have the time but after having a 6.5 prc, 6.5 saum and being in the process of getting a 7mm SS together, it would just be purely to try something different.