25-06 vs 25-06AI

[elkaholic]

Rich,

I like Mark have an older Sendero 25-06 that is looking more and more like I will need to rebarrel. I will know once I get back to the range again.....it may have been excessive Moly build up that was causing my Berger non molyed rounds to not be consistant....time will tell.

Your Sherman wildcat seems special.

What Barrel manufacturer, twist, groove would you go with if you were rebarrleing again? Would 30 inches be ideal length?

Hi Aldon....I really like the cartridge so far. It's a screamer and easy on cases. The barrel I have now is a Lilja 3 groove 8 twist and so far so good. I am going to put a Bartlein 5R on my new 300 Sherman though. I've heard a lot of good things about them and they are an up and comer in the benchrest world. As far as length, it just depends on how much you are willing to pack around. A 30" would be great velocity wise. I think with this case, velocity increases approx. 35-40' per inch of barrel length. What is your intended use for the rifle?....Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Would this be sorta like a 25 Gibb's?

Hi Crane.....It is the ballistic equivalent of a Gibbs. In fact, I was going to build a Gibbs but didn't like the design. My case has less body taper and a sharper shoulder which has Gibbs case capacity but with a far better neck. The Gibbs neck is extremely short which doesn't help accuracy. It is also ballistically equal to a 6.5-WSM.....Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I had a good and enjoyable chat with Rich earlier today. For those of you who haven't had the pleasure, he's a great guy!

Been doing some thinking on this and I think I'm gonna stick with the standard 25--06 and 6.5-06 cases. Just not enough payoff for me estimation with the AI. If cases and dies were more readily available it would be a different story.

The Sherman is a great sounding case but I have also been planning on doing a 6.5 WSM anyway so i wont duplicated the ballistics. I think I'll eventually also do a 25 WSM which should give the 257 Wby a run for the money.

Thanks a ton for all the help and good shooting

Mark

 

[mike33]

I had a good and enjoyable chat with Rich earlier today. For those of you who haven't had the pleasure, he's a great guy!

Been doing some thinking on this and I think I'm gonna stick with the standard 25--06 and 6.5-06 cases. Just not enough payoff for me estimation with the AI. If cases and dies were more readily available it would be a different story.

The Sherman is a great sounding case but I have also been planning on doing a 6.5 WSM anyway so i wont duplicated the ballistics. I think I'll eventually also do a 25 WSM which should give the 257 Wby a run for the money.

Thanks a ton for all the help and good shooting

Mark

Im currently doing a 25 WSM build. Just waiting for my smith to get done. I had my reamer done by Manson. I even gave it a new name 25 Bobcat ( after my landscaping company ) Im hoping also i can give my 257 whby a run for the money, if so the whby will go for a road trip.
Rem 700 SA trued
Hart # 3 10 twist
McMillian edge
Scope : not sure yet
Mike

 

[Aldon]

Rich,

My plan for this 25-06 or Sherman if I go in that direction....and it is really tempting, is as a Ground hog up to whitetail cornfield stand or still hunt rifle so a littel extra weight is no problem.

But I would not want extra length that is unproductive.

I would go with a heavier contour and stick with the HS precision stock that came with the Sendero as it is comfortable and seems adequate.

 

[Nitroused383]

Just so you know you can neck size 25-06 AI brass using the 25-06 Lee Collet die. I use the lee collet die and I also use a redding 25-06 AI shoulder bump die when I decide to bump the shoulders back. I mostly shoot the 115 Berger VLD's which I have tried with a bunch of powders. I have a few test loads of RL-17 loaded up but the weather has not cooperated lately.

I've seen 3425-3500 using imr-4831 and 7828 ssc (junk). Shooting your standard 25-06 @ 3500 fps with RL-17 is probably why your barrel is junk. That is a very hot load.

 

[BillR]

Nitroused383. What powder/loading did you finally settle on using the 115 VLD that gave you your best accuracy/velocity and still decent pressures? The Retumbo loading I found gave me fairly good accuracy but pressure seemed low and velocity was down around 3200. Not that much improvement over the standard 25-06 loading.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Nitroused, I bough the rifle used and fired 5 factory rounds (that came with it) through to see how it shot. I then proceeded to clean it, to prep it for a breack-in. It took 5 days, 4 of which were soaking with Wipeout, to clean it. With that I decided to have it borescoped and the smith told me the bore was severely firecracked. I hadn't worked up any loads in it yet.

The 110 AB @ 3500 fps is a "warm", but NOT hot load in my rifle. There are no pressure signs with this load (55 gr of RL17) and it gets me 200 fps more velocity than Retumbo did with the same bullet. The barrel is 26". At 55.5 gr I get a slight sticky bolt. RL17 is a very unique powder and it also gives me velocities 200 fps faster than H4350 in my 300 WSM.

You still have to blow out the shoulders and walls of the case right?

 

[Crane]

7828 ssc (junk).

I'm curious to know what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

 

[Nitroused383]

Nitroused383. What powder/loading did you finally settle on using the 115 VLD that gave you your best accuracy/velocity and still decent pressures? The Retumbo loading I found gave me fairly good accuracy but pressure seemed low and velocity was down around 3200. Not that much improvement over the standard 25-06 loading.

The most accurate / consistant powder that gave great velocity was IMR-4831 with WLR primers. The WLR primers fit too loose so I use the CCI BR2's. 56 grains of IMR 4831 always shot 3427 through my chronograph with an es of around 5 fps. Not that this means anything but I shot a 2 shot group at a plate of steel 700 yards away and it measured 1.25". I come up with a bc around .630 for the 115 vlds. Very very impressive still going 2000 fps at 1000 yards with around 1000 ft/lbs of energy. I have shot rocks out to 1000 yards and 16.3 MOA got me there with a 200 yard zero, do the math

I have test data for the 115 VLD using all sorts of primers and powders. Powders I tested were H-4831 sc, IMR 7828 sc, H-1000, Retumbo, RL-19 and IMR-4831. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 are two powders that could cover everything a 25-06 needs. I have more load data from a bench shooter if you are interested.

Nitroused, I bough the rifle used and fired 5 factory rounds (that came with it) through to see how it shot. I then proceeded to clean it, to prep it for a breack-in. It took 5 days, 4 of which were soaking with Wipeout, to clean it. With that I decided to have it borescoped and the smith told me the bore was severely firecracked. I hadn't worked up any loads in it yet.

The 110 AB @ 3500 fps is a "warm", but NOT hot load in my rifle. There are no pressure signs with this load (55 gr of RL17) and it gets me 200 fps more velocity than Retumbo did with the same bullet. The barrel is 26". At 55.5 gr I get a slight sticky bolt. RL17 is a very unique powder and it also gives me velocities 200 fps faster than H4350 in my 300 WSM.

You still have to blow out the shoulders and walls of the case right?

The standard 25-06 loads shoot great through the gun. I use them for coyotes or just screwing around with. After you shoot them run it through the Lee collet die and its good to go with just a neck size. I am currently testing RL-17 around 56 grains but my chronograph quit working when I was testing! I know I can get well over 3500 fps with this powder and 115 berger vlds.

I'm curious to know what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

Very temperature sensitive in my gun. Over 100 fps difference with only about a 30 degree weather change. Went from shooting great to wrecking brass all with the same load.

 

[BillR]

Crane, I am very interested in any loadings you have so if you can post it, PM it or email it to me I would be a happy man. I'm sure that there are some others here interested as the .25-06 in std and AI seems to be a caliber that a lot of guys here own.
IMR 4831 has been my standard .25-06 powder for over 40 years and I could not begin to tell you how many pounds of it I have used. Every now and that I start reading about how this or that powder will outperform it so off I go and start trying different powders. Maybe I need to stay with what I know and have.

 

[Nomosendero]

The most accurate / consistant powder that gave great velocity was IMR-4831 with WLR primers. The WLR primers fit too loose so I use the CCI BR2's. 56 grains of IMR 4831 always shot 3427 through my chronograph with an es of around 5 fps. Not that this means anything but I shot a 2 shot group at a plate of steel 700 yards away and it measured 1.25". I come up with a bc around .630 for the 115 vlds. Very very impressive still going 2000 fps at 1000 yards with around 1000 ft/lbs of energy. I have shot rocks out to 1000 yards and 16.3 MOA got me there with a 200 yard zero, do the math

I have test data for the 115 VLD using all sorts of primers and powders. Powders I tested were H-4831 sc, IMR 7828 sc, H-1000, Retumbo, RL-19 and IMR-4831. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 are two powders that could cover everything a 25-06 needs. I have more load data from a bench shooter if you are interested.




The standard 25-06 loads shoot great through the gun. I use them for coyotes or just screwing around with. After you shoot them run it through the Lee collet die and its good to go with just a neck size. I am currently testing RL-17 around 56 grains but my chronograph quit working when I was testing! I know I can get well over 3500 fps with this powder and 115 berger vlds.



Very temperature sensitive in my gun. Over 100 fps difference with only about a 30 degree weather change. Went from shooting great to wrecking brass all with the same load.

Interesting comments you are making about IMR4831, I thought it was a tad fast. I have been using RL25 with good results. I am looking forward to your RL17 results, 3500 with the 115 is smoking.

 

[BillR]

Just had a brain fart that brought up a question I had. Has anyone tried necking down the .280 AI brass to .25-06AI and if so what was the results? Haven't researched the dimensions on the .280AI as of yet but will when I get time.

 

[Crane]

BillR it appears Nitroused383 has way more experiance with the cartridge than I. If I was you I would defer to his knowledge at least until I finish with my testing. I'm unable to discuss ES yet and I haven't hade the opportunity to see how temp sensitive IMR 7828 SSC is because I haven't been testing it that long; I will know more in the spring.

I'm sure I'll benefit from all this exchange of data, I could have used some of it a few months ago.