25-06 vs 25-06AI

[41mag]

I'm pretty sure the 5r and 5c are both trapezoidal lands, just different manufacturers??

Description taken from the following,
The Remington Model 700 Stainless Special 5R Milspec

"5R-rifling features a radius'd shoulder between the lands and the grooves. Advantages are claimed to be a smoother engraving transition on the bullet jacket which, in theory at least, creates less drag in flight - which means possibly a slightly flatter shooting bullet compared to a bore of standard rifling profile. The second benefit is cleaning. Without the 90-degree angles between lands and grooves, fouling seems less likely to adhere as tenaciously to the bore. Copper fouling may also be reduced. This rifling profile is used in the Army's M24 Sniper rifle. It has a proven track record for accuracy at long range, often making M.O.A. or better shots possible to 1000 yards."

and here is another on the 5C from 6mm BR,
Canted Land Rifling

Also if you google either, you will find several post including some here, about both.

 

[elkaholic]

Description taken from the following,
The Remington Model 700 Stainless Special 5R Milspec

"5R-rifling features a radius'd shoulder between the lands and the grooves. Advantages are claimed to be a smoother engraving transition on the bullet jacket which, in theory at least, creates less drag in flight - which means possibly a slightly flatter shooting bullet compared to a bore of standard rifling profile. The second benefit is cleaning. Without the 90-degree angles between lands and grooves, fouling seems less likely to adhere as tenaciously to the bore. Copper fouling may also be reduced. This rifling profile is used in the Army's M24 Sniper rifle. It has a proven track record for accuracy at long range, often making M.O.A. or better shots possible to 1000 yards."

and here is another on the 5C from 6mm BR,
Canted Land Rifling

Also if you google either, you will find several post including some here, about both.

I don't know about the broughton, but according to the folks at bartlein, their barrel (5r) is not radiused, but trapezoid shaped, which also gives less angle at the land groove junction. I believe the "R" came from Russian where it was first used years ago in their military rifles....Rich

 

[swiftackley]

Ive been loadong 58 grains of 7828 inmy 25 ai and am right up there with the 257 weatherby, reloaders nest has quite a few loadings for it with the super slow powders but as always use common sense and caution, some of the loads they list border on insanity and velocities that some of the loads claim are best described as ridiculous

 

[Nomosendero]

Ive been loadong 58 grains of 7828 inmy 25 ai and am right up there with the 257 weatherby, reloaders nest has quite a few loadings for it with the super slow powders but as always use common sense and caution, some of the loads they list border on insanity and velocities that some of the loads claim are best described as ridiculous

Yes, a couple of those Rel. Nest loads look a little much.

What bullet are you using & what vel?

 

[BillR]

Reading those loads on Reloaders Nest is what got me to posting the question on can a .25-06AI be loaded up to a .257 wby velocity. Those loads of 7828 kind of scared the poop out of me to even try to think of using them. Had never intended on trying to make a Wby out of my rifle but was wondering if it was possible to get to 3400. Those loadings showing 3600 ) WOW. Wonder how long the throat will last in that barrel and just what kind of pressures he was getting.

 

[Crane]

I was reluctant to post my load until until I finished testing but settled on 59 grains of 7282 ssc for now. Tested in 1/2 grain increments. Slightly heavier bolt lift at 59.5 I stopped at 60.5; I've got a few I need to pull. 59.0 gave the best accuracy thus far @ 200 yds. I haven't continued with this due to weather, hunting season, work, kid's athletics, ect. ect. Again, my loads were with 110 Accubonds and the Barrel is a Rock. Chrono and ladder test to come.

 

[Nitroused383]

My load data for 7828sc, WIN 270 Brass, CCI 250 primer, 115 Berger VLD seated .040" from lands. Use caution as these may not be safe loads in your rifle.

25-06 AI, 26" Shilen 1-10 twist barrel.

58g = 3230-3260 FPS
59g= 3375
59.5g= 3418-3454
60g= 3454-3481 60 Degree day
60.2g= 3392-3427 45-50 Degree day
60g = 3463-3499 Hot load sticky bolt lift 75 Degree day

All same except CCI BR2 primer and seated @ rifling

60g= 3454-3463 Group sizes and verticle spread shrunk in half. Still no where near as accurate as IMR-4831.

The guy on reloaders nest is either insane or his chronograph is broken. I believe he is using nickle plated brass. As you can see 7828 spikes pressure very quickly and you need to be very careful. Gaining rougly 100 fps with 1 extra grain of powder

 

[Crane]

Like I said earlier, I personally would defer all questions to Nitroused383 as he has "been there, done that" reference this cartridge; and didn't forget to write it all down.


Isn't a 383 a .060 over 350ci block with a 400 crank...or is that a 377? Maybe I got it backwards, 060 over 400 block with a 350 crank. It's been awhile and quite a few hobbies ago.

 

[BillR]

I always like the 327 just a bit better. 327 / 375 from a corvette and then had it balanced and blueprinted by a Japanese guy named YUK who lived in Omaha and dropped it into a 66 SS Nova. SWEET. Didn't corner worth a dam but boy would it go in straight lines nice. Use to buy 100 octane gas for $.45 per gallon and it would even do better with that. Hmm Memories.

Looks like I need to load up my ammo and head for the range with it. 383, how much jump were you seating to when you got that pressure spike.

 

[Nitroused383]

Like I said earlier, I personally would defer all questions to Nitroused383 as he has "been there, done that" reference this cartridge; and didn't forget to write it all down.


Isn't a 383 a .060 over 350ci block with a 400 crank...or is that a 377? Maybe I got it backwards, 060 over 400 block with a 350 crank. It's been awhile and quite a few hobbies ago.

I'm not claiming to know anything really haha. I just have shot about 300-400 of these 115 VLD's through my gun looking for the perfect load. In the past I did a bad job of recording data so I often forgot what I had tried / tested before. This time I collected the info I could along the way and I tried to keep all my targets. 383 is a .030" over 350 block with a 3.75" crank (400 crank). A 377 could also be a 400 block with a 350 crank.

I always like the 327 just a bit better. 327 / 375 from a corvette and then had it balanced and blueprinted by a Japanese guy named YUK who lived in Omaha and dropped it into a 66 SS Nova. SWEET. Didn't corner worth a dam but boy would it go in straight lines nice. Use to buy 100 octane gas for $.45 per gallon and it would even do better with that. Hmm Memories.

Looks like I need to load up my ammo and head for the range with it. 383, how much jump were you seating to when you got that pressure spike.

I love the Chevy II's ! 100 octane gas for $.45 / gallon? That was way before my time I'm guessing Seating depth as stated was a .040" jump from the rifling.

 

[swiftackley]

Yes, a couple of those Rel. Nest loads look a little much.

What bullet are you using & what vel?

Im using 100 grain ballistic tips right now until I get bored with them but with 58 grains of 7828 I chrony'ed them at an average of 3400, I think I could go a bit warmer but I can string 5 in a dime so Im pretty happy with that. As far as throat erosion goes leaving time to cool between shots and keepin em clean goes a long way, but hey, they put threads on barrels so they can be removed and replaced. I always joke with people and tell them " I have a job that pays me with money with which I can use to buy new barrels"

 

[41mag]

I had a 383 in a 69 Coronet, more or less stock other than the 2" straight dual exhaust I had put on. It wasn't much from the hole but the top end was more than a few of my buds wanted to hang with. I really like it switching into third around 95 and then the body wold raise up, level off, and the speedometer would simply slap the far side or 120 hard enough to bounce back over around 90. LOL

Not sure what it was going, but it was pretty cool none the less. Oh yea, the High Octane juice REALLY made it shine.

 

[BillR]

The best time in a 66 SS Nova is when the 69 Trans Am in front of you is topped out and you still have plenty enough left and you just blow on around him like he is sitting still. Just hope you don't have any curves.

I was just wondering 383 if you were right up against the lands which can cause a pressure spike and which can make a bit of a difference with just one grain.
Just a bit of info for the rest of you guys shooting the .25-06 AI. I found that neck tension was very critical when it came to accuracy with this cartridge. I also learned that if I annealed my cases each time I reloaded them this problem went away. I learned this while learning how to fireform cases without loosing too many by blowing out the shoulder during fire forming. Lost a few cases that way on my first attempt and someone on here advised I anneal them before fire forming which I did. Accuracy wasn't that great after fire forming and I thought maybe the case wasn't totally blown out so I annealed them again. Shot them and accuracy was back and on the next firing it went south again. So I annealed them once more and accuracy was back. So I just make it part of the loading process after that. I do it in the basement with the lights off and a curtain just open enough to let me see whats going on but still let me see when the case just starts to go very lightly red. I watch for this while rolling the case in front of a propane flame and with the case in a deep well socket far enough to protect the bottom half of the case from the flame and when I see it just start to glow it goes into a coffee can of water to quench it. Been doing this for 25 years on my .25-06 cases to keep them from cracking the necks and it works but didn't realize how much it could help the accuracy. Especially on a tight neck chambered rifle.

 

[shadjodi]

Hi Mark.....I shot thousands of rounds thru a 25-06 and re-barreled it to 6.5-06 A.I. It was a great rifle. I killed 25+ elk with it as well as a lot of other game. I was able to get almost 3100 out of a 26" barrel and a 140 nosler. I completely shot that barrel out and now have my third barrel on it. It's a 26" Lilja three groove chambered in my 6.5 Sherman. I can tell you that it is far the best of the three. The A.I. case holds about 6% more powder than the std. case. My Sherman case holds 11% more and the cases last forever! I'm getting up to 3200 with the 140's with great accuracy. I have a once used reamer that would like to do some more work. Let me know if you are interested......Rich

I have seen you post about your 6.5 Sherman. What is a 6.5 Sherman? I have looked for info and can only find your posts. Thanks