Eagle eyes 17
Well-Known Member
I bought some 6mm Creed. Hornady - 87gr. factory ammo and some 87gr. V-Max bullets to reload, going to see how close I can match my loads to the factory loads.
.243 Win. vs 6mm Creed.
- Thread starter Eagle eyes 17
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Someone noticed an error with the weight, in another thread. I didn't have my cheaters on, when I entered the info. Made the corrections:
AVG-110.1
SD-.05077
PopSD-.05077
Still small efffing numbers.
zb338
Well-Known Member
zb338
Well-Known Member
I have shot a lot of .243 rifles in my day. Never had one hurt my shoulder.
Zeke
Zeke
great thread, my $0.02, ...as a disclaimer, I hunt for meat and punch paper to dial in hunting loads. My Dad built his first 243 in 1960 and the amount of deer and antelope taken can be measured in 'tons'. 100 gr Hornady soft point setting on top of almost a full case of IMR4831 was the staple load. I continue to use 243 for whitetails and antelope, and my 264 Win Mag for larger mule deer and longer shots. I think that the few FPS differences in the various .243 or 6mm calibers has not been noticed by the game that ended up on the table. As with any sport, it takes practice, practice, and practice to become proficient, whether it's punching one hole groups or hitting a running antelope on the next hill side. My 243 shoots about 1" groups with my pet load, but it always brings meat home.
Who the hell said, a 243, Will hurt your shoulder? Ever heard the term "shoulder a rifle", obviously not.
Overkill338
Well-Known Member
I love the .308 and all of her kids. Just the name Creedmoor sticks in my crawl. I'd use a slingshot first.
Jungleexplorer
Active Member
Wow, this is a long thread. Took me over an hour to read through it. Learned a lot about the 6mm cree. It seems that this entire thread boils down to this. Both the 243 and the 6mm creed are essentially the same for most practical purposes. The main difference is that the 6mm creed comes from the factor with a faster twist rate barrel than the 243, which allows it to stabilize heavier bullets. So the difference is not as much about the design of the bullet as it is about the standard design of the gun that shoots the bullet. There are few minor technical differences such as case design and such, but that is the main difference. You can get the same higher twist rate in a 243, but only in a custom barrel. Some claim that the 6mm cree brass last longer, but if you are shooting that much, then you are on the wrong forum. This the HUNTING forum, not the Recreational Shooter forum. If you are actually hunting enough to wear your brass out to the point that it became a financial burden on you to replace it, then you are either the worst shot on earth or possibly responsible for the extinction of several species. LOL! For real hunters, how long brass last is NOT a real concern.
So, my take is this 243 vs 6mm cree is this. Cartridge wise, they are about the same ballistically. If you want or need to shoot anything over the 100gr range, I would say go with the 6mm cree. I am not sure why you would need that since the 243 is legal to shoot Elk with a 100gr bullet (in Colorado), which any 1 and 9 twist 243 can do off the shelf.
These kinds of thread are always divided along two lines; Practical Use vs Specialized Use. For all practical uses, both calibers are great. The difference comes when you start getting "Specialized". The problem is that people that have gotten specialized, generally become very snarky in their opinions and tend to look down their noses at anyone that is not at their level or has no desire to do what they have devoted themselves to. They become obnoxious Purist focusing in non-practical minute details and degrade anyone that does think like them.
News flash! This forum is the Long Range HUNTING Magazine, not the Long Range SHOOTING magazine. For 99% of all real hunting purposes, 300 yards is long-range, and there are very few calibers that cannot be used for hunting that cannot achieve acceptable accuracy at 300 yards or less.
As a hunter of over 40 years on three continents, I have seldom had to shoot at even 300 yards. 99% of all hunting will happen at 300 yards or less UNLESS you go intentionally LOOKING for a reason to shoot at a longer distance, which would not be HUNTING, but would be the Recreational Shooting of Animals.
Hunting is about the PURPOSE you go hunting. Hunting is about seeking a wild animal for the purpose of food. Hunting is about taking a wild animal, NOT about HOW you take the animal. That is what True Hunting is. Hunting is not, "Let me see if I can shoot a P-dog at 1000 yards". That is about personal achievement and recreation. It is not about taking an animal, it is about pushing your limits and trying to achieve better performance. It has zero to do with the animal you are trying to take. JMHO
There is nothing wrong with trying to improve your shooting skill and performance to where you can hit a walnut at 1000 yards. It just is not Hunting. To all those people that come on here and want to get snarky because we are talking like HUNTERS and not obsessed precision competition shooters; just read the title of the forum and maybe go find a more appropriate place to talk with Like-Minded people. Don't get me wrong, I like a little long-range recreational shooting at animals too. I love pushing my limits and improving my skill. Don't believe? Go figure out the ballistic on what it would take to shoot a P-dog at 80 to 144 yards, with a 25 cal, 25gr bullet moving at 800 FPS with a crosswind gusting from 30 to 40 MPH. When you get done figuring that out, come back and watch this video of me doing this, several times in one setting.
Bottom Line: For HUNTING purposes, both the 6mm cree and the 243 are excellent HUNTING weapons and will do for 99% of all the hunting you will ever need to do, unless you really go SEARCHING for a way to push either one beyond their STANDARD limits.
Let me give you an example of what I am talking about to prove my point. in 1991, I walked into K-Mart and both a Savage 243 model 110 off the shelf for $250. I bought a $99 Bushnell Sportsview 4x12x44mm scope out of the Sportsmans Guide magazine to go on it. I went to the range with five different brands of 100gr 243 rounds and shot all of them to see which one the gun preferred. It loved the Winchester 100gr Power Point. I could put round so close together at 100 yards, that not even with spotting scope could I tell there was but one hole. I went back to the same store where I bought the box and bought every box they had of Winchester 100gr PP ammo (20 boxes), to get ammo from the same factory run. A couple of years later I wanted to cull hunt for a big game ranch in Texas. The manager told me I had to pass a test to qualify to hunt on their ranch. He drove me around in his truck until he spotted a Whitetailed doe at around 300 yards. He said, "Shoot that deer in the head." I looked at him and said, "Really!" He said, "If you don't have the confidence to make that shot, you cannot cull hunt for me." I rest that Savage 243 on the window seal and shot. The doe dropped instantly, without the top of her head. I culled hunting for that ranch for ten years killing almost 200 animals with that cheap Savage 243, with the same factory ammo and $99 scope. All head shots; never missed a shot. A single miss or wounded animal would have meant I never hunted on that ranch again. I still have the gun, and some of that same ammo. Why mess with something that works? I am a hunter, not a recreational shooter. I have many other rifles too, but that one stays in the case until I take it out to hunt deer with it. One shot, One kill, clean the gun, swab the barrel and it goes back in the case.
My point here is very simple, you don't have to mortgage the house to buy a really good "Hunting" rifle. Buy one you like, learn what that gun likes and you are good to go. For real hunting purposes, you don't need to get all caught up in all this other specialized long-range shooting crap. It may be long-range shooting, but it is not HUNTING.
So, my take is this 243 vs 6mm cree is this. Cartridge wise, they are about the same ballistically. If you want or need to shoot anything over the 100gr range, I would say go with the 6mm cree. I am not sure why you would need that since the 243 is legal to shoot Elk with a 100gr bullet (in Colorado), which any 1 and 9 twist 243 can do off the shelf.
These kinds of thread are always divided along two lines; Practical Use vs Specialized Use. For all practical uses, both calibers are great. The difference comes when you start getting "Specialized". The problem is that people that have gotten specialized, generally become very snarky in their opinions and tend to look down their noses at anyone that is not at their level or has no desire to do what they have devoted themselves to. They become obnoxious Purist focusing in non-practical minute details and degrade anyone that does think like them.
News flash! This forum is the Long Range HUNTING Magazine, not the Long Range SHOOTING magazine. For 99% of all real hunting purposes, 300 yards is long-range, and there are very few calibers that cannot be used for hunting that cannot achieve acceptable accuracy at 300 yards or less.
As a hunter of over 40 years on three continents, I have seldom had to shoot at even 300 yards. 99% of all hunting will happen at 300 yards or less UNLESS you go intentionally LOOKING for a reason to shoot at a longer distance, which would not be HUNTING, but would be the Recreational Shooting of Animals.
Hunting is about the PURPOSE you go hunting. Hunting is about seeking a wild animal for the purpose of food. Hunting is about taking a wild animal, NOT about HOW you take the animal. That is what True Hunting is. Hunting is not, "Let me see if I can shoot a P-dog at 1000 yards". That is about personal achievement and recreation. It is not about taking an animal, it is about pushing your limits and trying to achieve better performance. It has zero to do with the animal you are trying to take. JMHO
There is nothing wrong with trying to improve your shooting skill and performance to where you can hit a walnut at 1000 yards. It just is not Hunting. To all those people that come on here and want to get snarky because we are talking like HUNTERS and not obsessed precision competition shooters; just read the title of the forum and maybe go find a more appropriate place to talk with Like-Minded people. Don't get me wrong, I like a little long-range recreational shooting at animals too. I love pushing my limits and improving my skill. Don't believe? Go figure out the ballistic on what it would take to shoot a P-dog at 80 to 144 yards, with a 25 cal, 25gr bullet moving at 800 FPS with a crosswind gusting from 30 to 40 MPH. When you get done figuring that out, come back and watch this video of me doing this, several times in one setting.
Bottom Line: For HUNTING purposes, both the 6mm cree and the 243 are excellent HUNTING weapons and will do for 99% of all the hunting you will ever need to do, unless you really go SEARCHING for a way to push either one beyond their STANDARD limits.
Let me give you an example of what I am talking about to prove my point. in 1991, I walked into K-Mart and both a Savage 243 model 110 off the shelf for $250. I bought a $99 Bushnell Sportsview 4x12x44mm scope out of the Sportsmans Guide magazine to go on it. I went to the range with five different brands of 100gr 243 rounds and shot all of them to see which one the gun preferred. It loved the Winchester 100gr Power Point. I could put round so close together at 100 yards, that not even with spotting scope could I tell there was but one hole. I went back to the same store where I bought the box and bought every box they had of Winchester 100gr PP ammo (20 boxes), to get ammo from the same factory run. A couple of years later I wanted to cull hunt for a big game ranch in Texas. The manager told me I had to pass a test to qualify to hunt on their ranch. He drove me around in his truck until he spotted a Whitetailed doe at around 300 yards. He said, "Shoot that deer in the head." I looked at him and said, "Really!" He said, "If you don't have the confidence to make that shot, you cannot cull hunt for me." I rest that Savage 243 on the window seal and shot. The doe dropped instantly, without the top of her head. I culled hunting for that ranch for ten years killing almost 200 animals with that cheap Savage 243, with the same factory ammo and $99 scope. All head shots; never missed a shot. A single miss or wounded animal would have meant I never hunted on that ranch again. I still have the gun, and some of that same ammo. Why mess with something that works? I am a hunter, not a recreational shooter. I have many other rifles too, but that one stays in the case until I take it out to hunt deer with it. One shot, One kill, clean the gun, swab the barrel and it goes back in the case.
My point here is very simple, you don't have to mortgage the house to buy a really good "Hunting" rifle. Buy one you like, learn what that gun likes and you are good to go. For real hunting purposes, you don't need to get all caught up in all this other specialized long-range shooting crap. It may be long-range shooting, but it is not HUNTING.
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Overkill338
Well-Known Member
Holy long winded reply Batman! Took me an hour just to read it. Seems like you got all your punctuation correct, no spelling errors, and Capitol letters where they should be. Good job, you are safe from the ridicule.
Jungleexplorer
Active Member
LOL! Have you ever heard the joke about the guy was dared to drink from the spittoon in a bar? It goes like this.
There was this guy in a bar who was dared that he did not have the courage to take a sip from the spittoon. Bets were placed and they guy raised the spittoon to his lips and started to drink. Everyone in the bar started gagging and throwing up at the sight. They started shouting, "STOP!" For the love of Pete, STOP!!!" But the guy kept going until he had downed the whole spittoon. Everyone in the bar was disgusted and nauseated. They asked him, "What the hell is wrong with you man? You won the bet! You did not have to drink the whole dang spittoon for crying out loud!" The man sat there just staring for a while and then said, "I did not intend to. But once I got started, I just could not STOP!".
That joke kind of reminds me of a post I made recently.
Eagle eyes 17
Well-Known Member
Made up some comparison loads for the 6mm-Creed.108gr. ELD-M's
44gr. - H4831sc .... 3,000fps.
43gr. - Superformance .....3,000fps.
44gr. - H4831sc .... 3,000fps.
43gr. - Superformance .....3,000fps.
