.22 Centerfires on Medium to Large game

[69precision]

What am I ignoring? A guy killed 1000+ elephants with a round less powerful than a 308. And he did it 80-100 years ago, which considering how much bullet technology has advanced since then makes it much more true today than ever that a modest round like the 308 can easily take anything on the planet.

It's like using Jerry Miculek to support individual choices on handguns. Lots of parameters being ignored to make a point.

 

[stazmania]

What am I ignoring? A guy killed 1000+ elephants with a round less powerful than a 308. And he did it 80-100 years ago, which considering how much bullet technology has advanced since then makes it much more true today than ever that a modest round like the 308 can easily take anything on the planet.

I read somewhere of Bell stating later in life if he had to do it all again what cartridge would he choose? his answer the 308!

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

I read somewhere of Bell stating later in life if he had to do it all again what cartridge would he choose? his answer the 308!

If we really want to be history buffs. He liked the 7x57 because of the rifle--it was trim and carried a good capacity and the long 173 grain round nose bullets worked well. He also really like the 318 WR but ammo was much harder to source. The 318 was much more like a 338-06--a medium bore. He also liked the 450/400 in a double but they were expensive with expensive ammo..Bell wanted to get ivory on the ground as cheap and efficiently as possible. Lightweight reliable rifles, with light inexpensive available ammo--put ivory on the ground. He wasn't proving a point.

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

If we really want to be history buffs. He liked the 7x57 because of the rifle--it was trim and carried a good capacity and the long 173 grain round nose bullets worked well. He also really like the 318 WR but ammo was much harder to source. The 318 was much more like a 338-06--a medium bore. He also liked the 450/400 in a double but they were expensive with expensive ammo..Bell wanted to get ivory on the ground as cheap and efficiently as possible. Lightweight reliable rifles, with light inexpensive available ammo--put ivory on the ground. He wasn't proving a point.

 

[stazmania]

If we really want to be history buffs. He liked the 7x57 because of the rifle--it was trim and carried a good capacity and the long 173 grain round nose bullets worked well. He also really like the 318 WR but ammo was much harder to source. The 318 was much more like a 338-06--a medium bore. He also liked the 450/400 in a double but they were expensive with expensive ammo..Bell wanted to get ivory on the ground as cheap and efficiently as possible. Lightweight reliable rifles, with light inexpensive available ammo--put ivory on the ground. He wasn't proving a point.

yeah you must have read the same quote. But at the end of the day he chose the 308, don't be challenged by a hunter from decades ago.
'

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

Bell died in 1954--they developed the T65 in 1952 and didn't get commercial uptake until 1953-1954--guess he had some real confidence on his death bed.

I've read a bunch--even some quotes.

 

[stazmania]

lots of elephants cropped with an ak47 7.62 X 39, is it ideal? It would not be my first choice if I ever had a chance to go, but if it was what I had, and was legal I would use it. The OP ask for real results. If you have some post them up. The .224s are devastating killers in the right hands.

 

[Varmiter71]

22 creedmoor 200-400 yards

 

[HARPERC]

What am I ignoring? A guy killed 1000+ elephants with a round less powerful than a 308. And he did it 80-100 years ago, which considering how much bullet technology has advanced since then makes it much more true today than ever that a modest round like the 308 can easily take anything on the planet.

Well I'm reaching back in my memory, but my recollection is 1) He hunted animals that were uneducated, principally in a more open setting. 2) Great physical skills especially when it was time to run. 3) Shot birds on the fly. 4) Shot thousands of rounds at game to supply camp. 5) Some of his contemporaries reporting it didn't always follow script.

Someone has mentioned AK's and cull hunts, and yes it gets done, it isn't stalking to 10 yards or less on a targeted bull.

A big reason we have cartridge restrictions today is the visiting clients trying to replicate his exploits, ending up greasy spots on the ground.

 

[dogz]

Amazing how quickly a decent thread takes a turn and goes straight into the crapper...........

Ele's....G bears with 22 lr's..........zeesh

 

[Lou270]

Bell only used full metal jackets and mostly took brain shots with the lighter cals. He said his 275 rifle's barrel had never been polluted with soft nose bullets. He also used the 256 mannlicher but found the solids riveted so stopped using it. He also used the 303 and 318 a good bit. Bell was also an extraordinary shot among the old African hunters. Not just on Elephant. He went 10 for 10 on a herd of running Zebras with a 303 to impress some aggressive natives with his shooting ability. If you can shoot like Bell and take head shots only at close range then relevant to this discussion

Lou

 

[QuietTexan]

22s will kill deer. 17s will kill pigs. Rimfires, centerfires, whatever, doesn't matter. I don't like how they do it, so I don't usually use them. Same reason I don't drive a Honda Civic or a Peterbilt every day to work. There's a lot of better middle ground between extremes like shooting an elk with a 223 Rem or an armadillo with a 338 Lapua.

It's 2024 and not 1924. I'm not subsistence hunting during the Great Depression. There's no risk of my kids starving. I'm not working for a nickel an hour sweeping saw dust in the butcher shop and buying shells across the counter at the drug store/ soda fountain/ gas station while my dad chugs warm beer from a tab top can on the porch of our un-air-conditioned company-owned house after pulling a double in the mill. I will pick from one of my many rifles to match what I'm doing, be happy with my choice, and thankful for the options that I have.

But hey, if I have my 17 HMR and a pig walks out, he's still going to get an earful from me.

 

[bigngreen]

Just being curious I ran some numbers against my 6.5 SS which has killed more than a few elk in the 800-900 yard range rather effectively. The 22 Creed with the 80+ gr bullets look like their nearly identical except the 6.5 having more energy but still landing with more than enough velocity to open the bullet well, wind drift within a 10th moa, altogether actually the 22 Creed seems interesting especially in the form factor you could build one in, ultralite, low recoil for better performance from various improved positions. It's definitely more interesting with these big 22 cal bullets!

 

[Marky_mark]

22 creedmoor 200-400 yards

22 creedmoor 200-400 yards

Combined weight 200 lbs
Combined age 2 years old