1moa or half moa guaranteed rifles... worth anything or just a gimmick?

[Kimber7man]

If I wanted to spend $3000 to $4000 on a rifle that would be guaranteed to shoot less than 1 MOA, my first call would be to George Gardner at GA Precision. Then I'd call Jon Beanland. One of those two would build my rifle.

 

[COBrad]

This is one of the better threads I've read in a while. My experience has been that one comes across a few factory rifles that will shoot consistent moa 5 shot groups and very few that will shoot half minute. I've had excellent experiences with almost every custom I've had, and 5 out of 5 Coopers shot to half minute or better. Unless it's a lever or hand gun I'll buy a guaranteed accuracy gun from a reputable maker every time. I don't care to waste time messing with rifles that aren't expected to shoot very small groups.

 

[birdiemc]

I love the journey personally so taking a rem700 that shoots 5MOA groups and making it shoot sub MOA is fun. Is it worth the cost, especially if placing a dollar value on my time? ABSOLUTELY NOT, compared to buying a custom rig that you know is going to perform. But for me personally that is the excitement. I dont get much opportunity to shoot past 100 yards, and not to sound arrogant, but if the rifle/ammo combo is correct I can shoot good enough that I get bored. Definitely not 15 bullets through the same hole, by any stretch of the imagination, but what really keeps me interested is the process of taking a rifle to that point. Now that's just me personally. I build houses for a living, I work on my own cars, I like doing that kind of stuff. But I absolutely respect the folks that are only interested in the end result and have the money to buy the best. When I was younger that didnt make sense to me, but I get it now. If everybody could build a house who would buy one I built?
Got a little carried away there, but I guess my point is, even if I had a rifle that wasnt living up to the guarantee, (look at my Bergara thread, wouldn't even chamber the first factory ammo I tried) I would personally want to figure out why. But I dont expect everybody to think like me and want to know why it's doing what doing. Many would justifiably take the rifle back and want the problem resolved, and that's ok too.

 

[Woodybridge]

I think there's a middle ground. Having bought both expensive and cheap, I think practice is what ultimately dictates your outcome for both. I tend to try and play the middle ground in terms of price now, and find you get what you pay for, but agree, is a 1/2 MOA really necessary? I have hunted deer, elk, and wild boar and have almost never shot much further than 300 yard, and one inch MOA makes my kill shots pretty routine. Anyway, I understand passion on both sides of the argument, just my 2 cents.

 

[DJ Fergus]

When I had three little kids at home, I couldn't justify or afford a $3k rifle. I felt guilty buying myself a $800 rifle. I went for years wishing I could afford reloading equipment. I scraped up enough to buy the cheapest reloading equipment I could find. My first reloads were horrible, worse than my best factory ammo. I was highly discouraged. Nothing worked for me. 1.5 moa reloads. I kept trying, but made a mistake and went the opposite direction I meant to go with my seater die adjustment and didn't even realize what I had done. I had tried everything under the sun previously. I was at the point of giving up. I went and shot those rounds. Guess what? Sub 1/2 moa. I loaded up some more, sub half moa again, and again and again. For a Father of three kids on an unbelievable tight budget, It was a breakthrough that done me alot of good even though I didn't know much. So I thought, I can do this again pretty easily, Yea, right! Bought a $350 Remington 700 25-06 for my 8 year old son's first rifle. It was a 1.5 to 2 moa rifle with factory ammo. After six years, & just about every 25 caliber bullet made, return to Remington, better stock, three different powders, alot of frustrations, etc.... It now shoots 1/2 moa three shot groups that I am confident in. It only shoots one particular bullet that well. I learned a whole lot more than I bargained for with that rifle. I wasn't going to tell my son I was selling the first rifle that I had bought him for Christmas cause it didn't shoot good. I wasn't going to let it be something that he couldn't be proud of. Did I spend more time and money than I should have on that rifle? Yes, I absolutely did. I done it all with my son in mind. A situation like that is not for everyone and I understand that. But I would by no means know what I know now about hand loading & what it takes to make a rifle shoot good if it had not been for that cheap rifle I bought my son. I felt like I had no choice but to make it shoot decent. Call that what you want, stupid or a waste of time. I won't disagree with you, but I learned alot that I otherwise would not have taken the time to do. I know there are some rifles that won't shoot very accurate no matter what you try. I know that I am certainly not at the level of knowledge some of these fellows on here have. If you can afford it, go buy a custom rig from a reputable gunsmith. If you are a Father whose barely scraped up enough for a cheap rifle and cheap reloading equipment like I was then there's still hope for you. I used to kill alot of deer out to 400 yards with an moa rifle & 3x9x40 scope. I was happy with that . I was using all that I could afford. A few folks might make you feel like what you can afford is sub par. But don't let that discourage you, those folks are not looking to help you learn anything but just trying to convince you of how smart they are.

Don't you quit.
Don't you give up.
You keep walking.
You keep trying.
There is help and happiness ahead...
It will be alright in the end.
Trust in God and believe in good things to come.

Not my quote but it has sure helped me out in more situations than just shooting & hand loading, Lol

 

[KyCarl]

I took another approach..While my kids were little I basically did without.
I worked 2 jobs ..for years I sold my vacation time and worked..took care of my obligations..made investments..bought property.
Fast forward..Kids are 25 and 35 with their own jobs and lives. It's MY TURN NOW! I refuse to settle, now If I want a $4000.00 rifle I buy it! New Scope..sure
It all paid off! Big time!

 

[Greyfox]

I think the "xxMOA guarantee's validity is a function of the specific factory or makers particular practice/policy. This quarentee can range from actual break-in and testing the rifle, providing both ammunition and reloading recipe that performs to the accuracy spec.....To, simply relying on a statistical assumption that the rifle should produce the claimed accuracy, and dealing(or not) with a complaint if or when a customer contacts them with a performance issue. If the accuracy performance claim is a key factor when purchasing the firearm, the onus is on the buyer to have an understanding of the makers particular practice. IMO, the answer to the OP's question about the validity of the accuracy guarantee......."Sometimes".

 

[DJ Fergus]

I took another approach..While my kids were little I basically did without.
I worked 2 jobs ..for years I sold my vacation time and worked..took care of my obligations..made investments..bought property.
Fast forward..Kids are 25 and 35 with their own jobs and lives. It's MY TURN NOW! I refuse to settle, now If I want a $4000.00 rifle I buy it! New Scope..sure
It all paid off! Big time!

I'm glad you are in good shape now. If you can afford a $4k rifle and that's what you want, why not get it. I can afford better that what I could before. I've learned enough over the years that I've put a few rifles together on my own. I'm putting one together now. I keep telling my self that this will be the last one but we all know how that goes, lol.

 

[mahiman]

FN. have in 308 and 300. Both sub 1/2 moa at 100 and 200.

 

[HARPERC]

I don't have much use for corporate guarantees. My experience is the time energy, and money getting that guarantee honored is more than the initial cost of the product.

If I buy a factory rifle that doesn't perform its gone. Gift it, trade it whatever. This comes from having turned what was an inexpensive purchase into a full custom. Then realizing *** it's still not what I wanted.

 

[tn shooter]

No doubt a John Beanland or a nice Borden rifle will shoot super accurate groups. Several of my buddies have these and they are impressive......but at $4K they should be. As for me my factory Fierce, or Cooper shoot well enough and .5 -.75" MOA 5 shot groups with handholds is what I am able to get. Of course a Fierce or Cooper are not your lowest cost factory rifle, but for $1750-2200 you don't loose much to the custom rifles IMO.

 

[Woodybridge]

It's funny, when I go the range now the range masters always comment on my browning BAR. It's pretty accurate,1 inch MOA is normal after refining it. My luck with custom guns not great. I keep thinking after the age of 50 now that maybe since Browning has been making guns for the better part of a century they have all the bugs out. The custom guys making guns bring in all the best parts and assemble, but sometimes they don't always flow well. Anyway, might just be that my custom gun experience didn't work out and there's a lot of great product out there