1moa or half moa guaranteed rifles... worth anything or just a gimmick?

[Kimber7man]

Anytime I hear "guarantee" my mind automatically goes to Tommy Boy.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I think there has to be a lot of shots not counted for factory rifles to always shoot 1 moa let alone .5 moa. A rifle that holds 1 moa consistently day in and day out is a pretty fine rifle.

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

Everybody on the net talks about their .25 moa 7 lb ready to hunt rifle that is capable all day long "as long as I do my part".

I laugh when I get people telling me their cheap savage axis or ruger american is a "all day long" .25 rifle when realistically it happened one time. I've got one of those light weight hunting rifles. Browning x-bolt. On a good day it hits sub .5 moa. Most of the time it lands closer .75 for 3 shots. Which I consider excellent for a rifle with a pencil barrel chambered in a magnum caliber. It takes a heck of a rifle to be a true .5moa rifle day in day out 365 days a year.

 

[packgoatguy]

It's your money. I do not think it is hype at all. You could take your chances with a seriously mass produced rifle off the Walmart shelf or Cabela's shelf or you could buy something like a Fierce with a .5 moa guarantee. They ship with proof. As far as an expectation for any rifle, even a full blown custom, to shoot all ammo under .5moa that is a pipe dream. Will a rare rifle do that? Maybe. I would never count on it. If it were hype then why would anyone be wasting money and not just buying cheap Savage Axis and Remington 783s? Now on the flip side just because it does not have a guarantee does not mean it will not shoot accurately. Christensens only have a 1 moa guarantee and all 5 I have shot would do .5. My three Tikkas have been the same. .5 with load development. I am to the point in my life were I just do not have time playing a guessing game or rifle roulette. I would prefer to pay for something I know is going to shoot.

Last I checked, Christensen Arms does offer a half MOA guarantee on some of their rifles. I think on the Summit Ti at least.

 

[packgoatguy]

I laugh when I get people telling me their cheap savage axis or ruger american is a "all day long" .25 rifle when realistically it happened one time. I've got one of those light weight hunting rifles. Browning x-bolt. On a good day it hits sub .5 moa. Most of the time it lands closer .75 for 3 shots. Which I consider excellent for a rifle with a pencil barrel chambered in a magnum caliber. It takes a heck of a rifle to be a true .5moa rifle day in day out 365 days a year.

Well, I guess that is exactly my point... it wouldnt take much for a manufacturer like Fierce to find a "sweet spot" load for each rifle, cherry picking the ammo they want to use for it, until they get their one 3 shot group... which IMHO devalues their .5MOA guarantee. What I REALLY want is an objective measure to quantify the accuracy between various rifles. I am happy to pay more for a rifle that is inherently more accurate than another... but I don't think that exists.

 

[packgoatguy]

i think an accuracy guarantee is a way for a gun maker to give some credibility to their rifles. i'd ask the manufacturer what they do if your rifle doesn't meet their guarantee, that's sort of the proof in the pudding.

i've looked at some of the fierce targets on their site and it's normally 3 tight shots and then an outlier they call a fouling shot, sort of weird. that said, i don't think i've read anything bad about their accuracy. my bil just got a fury but hasn't had it out yet.

Well, that is what I am saying that the folks at Fierce DID tell me... that since they send the rifle with a target showing the 3 shot group, their Accuracy Guarantee has ALREADY been met... and there is no FUTURE guarantee of repeatability of that accuracy. I kind of wonder if they don't know the definition of the word "guarantee"... or maybe I don't...

 

[cape cove]

I think there has to be a lot of shots not counted for factory rifles to always shoot 1 moa let alone .5 moa. A rifle that holds 1 moa consistently day in and day out is a pretty fine rifle.

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

Everybody on the net talks about their .25 moa 7 lb ready to hunt rifle that is capable all day long "as long as I do my part".

Agree totally. Not long ago on another thread I said that I have heard alot about these .5 moa factory rifles but in all my 50 yrs of shooting i've yet to see any let alone the .25 ones.

 

[KyCarl]

You guys ever hear of "stacking" targets? Put one up shoot it..put another over it shoot it and so on. And sooner or later you will get 3 shots in 1/2 inch. on one of the stacked targets!
Try it you will see

 

[Woodybridge]

Well, I bought a red rock precision rifle that was out of the box dead on accurate, and could repeatedly hit 1/2 inch to 3/4 with their ammo. However, after owning it 18 mos I sold it, as accurate as it was it just wasn't the ideal hunting rifle as it struggled to hold a few shells and bolt them through cleanly. Bought a Sako long range in 300 win mag and found with factory ammo it's nearly as accurate, for a whole lot less, and you can push and cycle shells through without issue.

 

[DanRPhD]

The best rifle is only as good as me on a bad day. That is why I practice.

 

[otisdog]

I have a cooper with at the 1/2 MOA Guarantee. Sub 1/2 MOA (.35) was very easily achieved with handholds, never tried factory rounds. I feel pretty confident that this is a real guarantee. My Sako finnlight has a 1 MOA 5 shot guarantee. It achieves this easily with multiple factory loads. All I know is that in my experience its for real.

 

[birdiemc]

Today I had the oppurtunity to shoot the ruger long range precision rifle chambered in 6.5 creedmoor, the owner told me its 1100 yard ready out of the box, not sure what that's supposed to mean but he says thats what they were claiming. He had shot it several times but didnt really comment on it other than to say he couldnt get it to shoot when he tried to take it out to 300. I sat down at 100 yards and didn't even hit paper so I bore sighted it, and got it on in a couple rounds, then proceeded to put 10 in the orange dot on one of those shoot and see targets. Pretty impressed with the rifle actually but the owner had no idea what he had before that moment. Then I went ahead and zeroed 2 more for him that he said wouldn't shoot. Ended up with sub MOA on one and MOA on the other. I bring this up because I imagine this is the norm for what these Mfrs are having to cater to. The folks on this forum are probably a very small representation of gun owners, hence when you call a mfr and say their rifle wont shoot what they claim they just roll their eyes because they just got 10 calls from guys like this one whose boresight was literally 3 feet right of target, but somehow it's the rifle that's not performing.

 

[DJ Fergus]

Let's just say a fellow goes and buys himself a factory rifle with a 1/2 moa guarantee. He tries 5 or maybe 10 different types of ammo. He finds a brand/ type of ammo that shoots 1/2 moa pretty consistently at 100 yards. The manufacturer meets their guarantee but as alot of us know that the ammo manufacturer doesn't have to guarantee they won't change the recipe for that ammo. They don't guarantee they won't quit making that ammo. But just say your factory rifle shoots 4 out of 5 different types of factory ammo into 1/2 moa. You better hang on to that marvel. I've saw factory rifles hover around 3/4 moa @ 100 yards with cherry picked factory ammo but extreme spread was so high that it opened up bad vertically as close as 400yds. Everyone wants to shoot 1/2 moa or better, I understand that. Does everyone really need 1/2 moa? Probably not. For me to be able to confidently shoot 1/2 moa or better day in day out in hunting situations, I must load my own ammo and not rely on factory loaded ammo. Different strokes for different folks. I just personally think that if you need gauranteed 1/2 moa from a sporter weight rifle without a shadow of a doubt day in day out with factory ammo then you may have to go thru several factory rifles to find one that will do that or move into the realm of a built custom rifle.

 

[FURMAN]

So can I safely assume you anti- guarantee guys are shooting cheap rifles? I think if you are paying 3k plus for a rifle it **** well better have a guarantee. If you are ok with shelling out that much money for a rifle from a manufacturer not confident enough for a guarantee then have at it. I can pretty much guarantee that once in a while the guys with guarantees will let one slip out that does not meet the standard. The difference is they will take care of you. Others will just say oh well or it meets our 1.5 moa guarantee. Either way like I said it is your money. I know where mine is going.

 

[birdiemc]

So can I safely assume you anit- guarantee guys are shooting cheap rifles? I think if you are paying 3k plus for a rifle it ---- well better have a guarantee. If you are ok with shelling out that much money for a rifle from a manufacturer not confident enough for a guarantee then have at it. I can pretty much guarantee that once in a while the guys with guarantees will let one slip out that does not meet the standard. The difference is they will take care of you. Others will just say oh well or it meets our 1.5 moa guarantee. Either way like I said it is your money. I know where mine is going.

I only have cheap rifles...you bet your butt if I paid 3k for one and it didnt shoot 1/2 MOA I would be crawling up somebody's hind end.