1moa or half moa guaranteed rifles... worth anything or just a gimmick?

[packgoatguy]

So, my Tikka t3 300WM superlite has a 1MOA guarantee (with factory ammo). So does my Kimber mountain ascent... However, under the right circumstances and loads, both of these rifles have put out sub-halfMOA groups...

Now I am looking into buying a Fierce Arms Edge, and hear all the hype about its "half MOA" guarantee... and how special that is...

But, when I contacted Mogle about it, the response I got is that basically, all that guarantee means is simply that they found a particular factory load that happened to produce a half MOA or better group at 100 yards. They way it was described to me, they DONT guarantee that once it leaves their possession it will be guaranteed to shoot other quality ammunition at Half MOA or better. Merely that at one point in time, the rifle had actually shot a 3 round Half MOA group. And they ONLY guarantee that the particular factory ammo used (in this case 160gr Nosler Accubonds) was capable of being fired through that particular rifle in Half MOA groups.

This seems like a gimmick to me. Couldn't most any rifle manufacturer say exactly the same thing? Im sure I could take pretty much any new rifle off the shelf at Cabelas, and given the right conditions, and the right box of factory ammo... I could eventually find a sweet spot that gives me a 3 shot half MOA group.

Has anyone had success calling one of these rifle manufactures on their purported "guarantees"? Are any manufactures known for standing by their guarantees better than others?

 

[Barrelnut]

Only rifle I had to send to the factory for accuracy issues was a Savage. It was getting flyers with handloads. They said the barrel was out of spec and replaced it free of charge. And they don't even have a accuracy guarantee.
But, I would say that any of the manufacturers you mention would do the same if there was a valid accuracy issue that they could verify.

 

[BoomFlop]

So what you are saying is that a particular rifle, let's say your Tikka should be able to shoot all or even most factory ammo under 1" at 100 yards?

What the manufacturer is saying basically is: the rifle is capable of producing that accuracy. They however can not control the products produced by other companies.

I say all that to say this. I don't think the guarantee is a gimmick, but it is also not what the average customer thinks it means.

AND, that all of those variables is taking the shooter out of the equation.

Hope this helps.
Steve

 

[shinbone]

Its marketing hype, IMHO. Especially if that guarantee is for a 3-shot group.

The important question is whether the maker has a reputation for quality and accuracy. If the maker has that reputation, a 1 MOA guarantee is irrelevant because the maker will stand by its product to deliver a good shooting rifle.

If the maker has a poor reputation, the 1 MOA guarantee is again irrelevant because if the gun is a poor shooter, the maker will fight you every step of the way, and never really deliver, if you try to make good on that 1 MOA guarantee.

Again, JMHO.

 

[DJ Fergus]

I believe that you couId go buy any factory run of mill bolt action without a gross defect and find factory ammo that would produce 1 moa 3 shot group @100 yards. It may take buying every different brand/ type of ammo that is available to produce 1 moa. I have had one rifle that would't do 1 moa. It had way to much headspace. 1/2 moa rifles with factory ammo is not as common. It's worth learning to handload if you require 1/2 moa consistently. I'm not saying that you won't find a rifle that will consistently do 1/2 moa with factory ammo but it is not as easy to come across and may require buying something like a creedmoor or 308. Maybe some Fierce owners on here can give you some feedback on how they shoot. I have a friend who just buys and trades average priced factory bolt actions until he gets one that's real good shooter. Then he keeps it and starts the process all over again prior to the next hunting seaon. Yeah, he's got alot of rifles. I can't necessarily afford to do that like he does.

 

[FURMAN]

It's your money. I do not think it is hype at all. You could take your chances with a seriously mass produced rifle off the Walmart shelf or Cabela's shelf or you could buy something like a Fierce with a .5 moa guarantee. They ship with proof. As far as an expectation for any rifle, even a full blown custom, to shoot all ammo under .5moa that is a pipe dream. Will a rare rifle do that? Maybe. I would never count on it. If it were hype then why would anyone be wasting money and not just buying cheap Savage Axis and Remington 783s? Now on the flip side just because it does not have a guarantee does not mean it will not shoot accurately. Christensens only have a 1 moa guarantee and all 5 I have shot would do .5. My three Tikkas have been the same. .5 with load development. I am to the point in my life were I just do not have time playing a guessing game or rifle roulette. I would prefer to pay for something I know is going to shoot.

 

[FEENIX]

It's your money. I do not think it is hype at all. You could take your chances with a seriously mass produced rifle off the Walmart shelf or Cabela's shelf or you could buy something like a Fierce with a .5 moa guarantee. They ship with proof. As far as an expectation for any rifle, even a full blown custom, to shoot all ammo under .5moa that is a pipe dream. Will a rare rifle do that? Maybe. I would never count on it. If it were hype then why would anyone be wasting money and not just buying cheap Savage Axis and Remington 783s? Now on the flip side just because it does not have a guarantee does not mean it will not shoot accurately. Christensens only have a 1 moa guarantee and all 5 I have shot would do .5. My three Tikkas have been the same. .5 with load development. I am to the point in my life were I just do not have time playing a guessing game or rifle roulette. I would prefer to pay for something I know is going to shoot.

Agreed! Marketing hype seems to be the default response, belief, or excuse these days.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I think there has to be a lot of shots not counted for factory rifles to always shoot 1 moa let alone .5 moa. A rifle that holds 1 moa consistently day in and day out is a pretty fine rifle.

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

Everybody on the net talks about their .25 moa 7 lb ready to hunt rifle that is capable all day long "as long as I do my part".

 

[FURMAN]

I think there has to be a lot of shots not counted for factory rifles to always shoot 1 moa let alone .5 moa. A rifle that holds 1 moa consistently day in and day out is a pretty fine rifle.

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

Everybody on the net talks about their .25 moa 7 lb ready to hunt rifle that is capable all day long "as long as I do my part".

I fully agree with your overriding point. When I say my rifle/load is .5 moa it is more realistically a .25 rifle/load in calm conditions but once in a while one slips. As far as all day every day that is the most annoying and bs thing I read on the net. I practice with my rifles in crappy conditions. No rifle on the planet will consistantly stay under .5 moa at 1000 yards in all conditions. It is not the rifles fault. If I do not practice in those conditions then I will not be prepared to take an ethical shot at game.

 

[Sflutes]

If is a typical hunter with a .308 or .30-06, was else is he lying about is what I think. Same with an M4gery.

If it is a skilled marksman talking about something he built or bought for a specific task, then I may perk up and see what is actually being said. Over 200 rounds and 40 degree temp swing with no shift in POA/POI with excellent accuracy...or something else?

I have a variety of rifles and my best loads in my .30-06 never got me better than 1MOA for 5 shots. A match .308 and .223 Kregier, yes I can stay under 1MOA most of the time on most days. But, my .338-06 (Weatherby Ultralight) shot a 3/8" 5 shot 100 yard group for its first group and continues to be a freak to this day. It is simply amazing, especially for an Ultralight.

 

[shinbone]

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

This!

 

[DJ Fergus]

I think there has to be a lot of shots not counted for factory rifles to always shoot 1 moa let alone .5 moa. A rifle that holds 1 moa consistently day in and day out is a pretty fine rifle.

One company makes the claim and the rest follow suit or get left behind.

Everybody on the net talks about their .25 moa 7 lb ready to hunt rifle that is capable all day long "as long as I do my part".

This is probably the most logical statement I've ever heard on an internet shooting/ hunting forum. Alot of people think that because they shot 1/2 moa a couple of times with a particular rifle then it's a 1/2 moa rifle. I have a rifle that will do 5/8 moa about 60% of the time, I ocassionally get a flyer that opens it up to 1 moa. That's with hand loads. I consider that a 1moa rifle. I'm still trying to identify the cause of my flyer. But it's routinely 1moa with the right factory ammo. The problem I see with accuracy guarantees is that it might shoot to that guarantee with factory ammo but it may not be the particular bullet I want to shoot. I also have a 25-06 that will do 1/2 moa consistantly with handloaded 80 great Barnes for three shots. It doesn't like absolutely anything else. The 80 Barnes does ok but I would be much happier shooting 115 or 120 grainers 1/2 moa. It does about 1.5 moa with those. If it so happens that a fellow gets a 1/2 moa factory rifle, then he really may not learn much. Finicky rifles and not being able to afford a custom rifle forced me to learn alot. If I could have been able to buy 1/2 moa factory ammo rifles then I wouldn't know how to reload at this point. Alot can be done with a consistent moa rifle. Theres Plenty of keyboard heros out there shooting consistent 1/4 moa with pencil barrel hunting rifles, lol.

 

[davsco]

i think an accuracy guarantee is a way for a gun maker to give some credibility to their rifles. i'd ask the manufacturer what they do if your rifle doesn't meet their guarantee, that's sort of the proof in the pudding.

i've looked at some of the fierce targets on their site and it's normally 3 tight shots and then an outlier they call a fouling shot, sort of weird. that said, i don't think i've read anything bad about their accuracy. my bil just got a fury but hasn't had it out yet.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

An accuracy guarantee on a rifle in 2019 is like a gluten free sticker on a water bottle.