147 gr Hornady ELD Match 6.5 CM as a Hunting Round?

[Quintus]

Is your friend going to try to shoot game at 1000 yards? There are many, almost any better choices for killing non-predators/varmints. Accubonds, Hammers, TTSX, Partition, Scirocco, GMX, just to name a few.
Price of quality end rifle rig - $3,500.00
Price of outfitted Elk Hunt - $10,000.00
People trusting in a 5 cent match bullet on above mentioned hunt with above mentioned rifle - Ridiculous. Oh, priceless.
With a well built gun like he's got it shouldn't be too tough to find or work up an accurate load with a quality bullet. He will most likely get a shot inside 300 yards anyway, and then what kind of trouble might he have?

 

[Subzero]

143ELD-X wouldn't shoot in my 6.5cm. 147ELDM's were extremely accurate, so I went ahead and used it on this little guy at about 100yds. That's the exit wound. He took one step and fell over dead. I'm happy with it.

 

[Quintus]

Is that about a hundred and ten pounder?

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

If you have to ask, you must have doubts.

Why not use a bullet you have no doubt about?

Personally, I don['t care for thin-skinned target bullets for hunting. Especially for ranges at which most animals are taken. Extreme range, doen't matter so much and they may work better in that situation.

 

[BrentM]

Ya know people ask questions about things they don't know about all the time. Powder, calibers, cartridges, rifle makes, bullets.... asking a bullet is
Fine. I remember when berger was being hammered by old school hunters who said it would not work, wasn't designed for it..... gosh, seems like that is quite acceptable to use the bullet, a target bullet, for hunting.

 

[Quintus]

gosh, seems like that is quite acceptable to use the bullet, a target bullet, for hunting.

I am not saying Bergers are not a reliable killer, but I would not use what is acceptable by modern standards as a model for quality, morality, or good judgement. Heck, the modern society can't figure out what GD bathroom to use. Just sayin.

 

[BrentM]

Interesting. Seems modern bullets do what is needed to be done and used by some of the most accredited hunters. Besides Berger's and others like the amax are a couple decades old. I don't have any skin in the game but seems folks asking questions should be fine regardless

 

[Quintus]

Again, not saying they don't get the job done, and what the OP will find in a lot of cases is the job is done in spades. I have used these bullets and have not lost an animal. I have had more bang flops with these bullets (Bergers, B-tips, A-max, ELDM, Sierra GK and MK) than with premiums (Swift, Barnes, Partitions, Trophy, Etc). My problem has been with blood shot meat and sometimes just destroyed meat and an awful carcass. Pretty impressive when they drop, not so much when they hang. I'm not saying that is always the case either, but A-max, B-tips, ELDM, and lead tip Gamekings have made a lot more purple meat than others. If you are going to do most of your game shooting under 400 or 500 yards, there are better choices, in my opinion.

 

[TRG65]

If your game is deer, antelope, and pigs, I think 147 eld-m's are fine. That's what I use in my son's Creedmoor and am working up a load in my GAP10 6.5 Creedmoor. However, if you are looking at larger game, I'd personally look at the 140 accubond and take the lower bc.

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

Asking questions is fine. My question was why would you use something if you lack confidence in it? I won't do that with cartridges, bullets, vehicles, lasers, or any other tool.

There is no question a thin-skinned target bullet can result provide an impressive bang-flop. They do so by coming apart and scattering lead, both characteristics I want in a varmint bullet but the exact opposite of what I want in a hunting bullet.

For me the ideal hunting bullet is one that provides reliable and controlled but limited expansion with high weight retention for deep penetration over a wide range of velocities - from a couple feet to as far as I'm willing to shoot (600 yards under perfect conditions). Thin-skinned target bullets, including the VLD (which was originally a target bullet) don't provide that.

While I use standard cup-and-core (BT, SST) bullets on antelope and lower velocity rifles and various FP and HP in my lever and handguns, my preference for most of my rifles are TTSX, LRX, AB, ABLR, SC II, A-Frame and the no longer available North Fork bullets. The Federal Edge, Edge TLR and new Terminal Ascent are, in my opinion, and for my purposes, the best designed hunting bullets ever.

I've seen the what fast and light cup-and-core hunting and slower and heavier target bullets can do. That includes both nasty wounds where the bullet failed to penetrate to the vitals, resulting in a lost animal, and massive meat destruction. I've never seen the bullets I prefer fail to penetrate or cause excessive meat damage.

Do cup-and-core gullets work? Most of the time, yes. Do I want one loaded in my rifle if I have to take a shot at a wounded or possibly wounded elk or mulie that is headed for the next county? Never.

 

[bomberodevil]

What I don't understand is, most hunters and shooters do not have formal training or advanced degrees in mechanical engineering or ballistics physics.

We rely on the R&D and Engineers at the bullet manufacturers of the brands we choose. That makes sense, when in doubt, ask the experts.

Just about every major bullet manufacturer states that they do not recommend using match bullets for hunting. The folks who design and build match bullets say, in print, that match bullets are not reliable for hunting.

Why would we not take that advice?

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

What I don't understand is, most hunters and shooters do not have formal training or advanced degrees in mechanical engineering or ballistics physics.

We rely on the R&D and Engineers at the bullet manufacturers of the brands we choose. That makes sense, when in doubt, ask the experts.


Just about every major bullet manufacturer states that they do not recommend using match bullets for hunting. The folks who design and build match bullets say, in print, that match bullets are not reliable for hunting.

Why would we not take that advice?

Advanced engineering degrees are not required to note how bullets perform on game. And once the performance of various designs has been seen, it doesn't take a genius to predict with some accuracy how similar designs will work

Unfortunately, the "experts" are often nothing more than marketing types promoting a product. As a result, buyer beware.

There are at least two bullet designs where I trust the "experts", but that trust is based on personally witnessed performance of similarly designed bullets. The first is Berger, who claim their hunting bullets will penetrate '2" to 3"' before beginning to expand, after which they will "shed 40% to 85%" of their weight as shrapnel. THis is NOT what I want in a hunting bullet. Another "expert" I trust is Federal Premium when they talk about their new Terminal Ascent bullets. Federal claims the "Copper shank and bonded lead core retain weight for deep penetration at any range". This is exactly the performance I've seen with A-Frames and North Fork bullets, both of which share the most important design concepts of the Terminal Ascent - a bonded lead core up front and a non-expanding rear section. (The A-Frame is partitioned, the North Fork has a mono rear section like the Terminal Ascent.)

 

[bomberodevil]

Advanced engineering degrees are not required to note how bullets perform on game. And once the performance of various designs has been seen, it doesn't take a genius to predict with some accuracy how similar designs will work

Unfortunately, the "experts" are often nothing more than marketing types promoting a product. As a result, buyer beware.

There are at least two bullet designs where I trust the "experts", but that trust is based on personally witnessed performance of similarly designed bullets. The first is Berger, who claim their hunting bullets will penetrate '2" to 3"' before beginning to expand, after which they will "shed 40% to 85%" of their weight as shrapnel. THis is NOT what I want in a hunting bullet. Another "expert" I trust is Federal Premium when they talk about their new Terminal Ascent bullets. Federal claims the "Copper shank and bonded lead core retain weight for deep penetration at any range". This is exactly the performance I've seen with A-Frames and North Fork bullets, both of which share the most important design concepts of the Terminal Ascent - a bonded lead core up front and a non-expanding rear section. (The A-Frame is partitioned, the North Fork has a mono rear section like the Terminal Ascent.)

You're right, it doesn't take an advanced degree to look at an exit hole in an animal or to see an animal go down in a short distance from impact or a longer distance (or lost completely).

I haven't (nor am I going to) gone through the last months or years worth of comments to gather data on this forum. But whenever this discussion comes up, members do give their experiences and opinions.

I rarely see a member's experience where a game animal is hit at a good location, by what is commonly known as a hunting bullet, and the bullet did not perform at the member's expectations.

I do see more commonly where a match bullet did not perform to the member's expectation.

i also find it puzzling that you trust the experts in Berger and Federal, but you don't trust the experts who designed the hunting and match bullets for Nosler, Hornady, and Sierra. These aren't folks who only make one kind of bullet. They make both hunting and match bullets. They are telling sportsmen that we don't recommend using match bullets on game, as they aren't designed to perform on game in a humane manner. But you don't believe them?

 

[Grizzhunt]

My 6.5x284 killed 3 elk last year with a 147 eldm. One at 500 one at 530 and another at 250. They do pretty well but elk are tough. I built a 300 prc for my elk gun still shooting a eldm. I'm going to try the new Barnes bore rider if it shoots good I will run it. If not I'm going to stick with the eldm.