140gr Berger Elite Hunter issue. Anyone experience this?

[FEENIX]

Show me a bullet and I'll show someone on the internet that had a problem with it.


Here is a study/article on hydrostatic shock.....take from it what you will.

Hydrostatic shock

Agreed! Michael is an LRH member but has not posted for a while now. He also taught at the USAFA. He's a brilliant man.

 

[Rosebud]

It even started making ground burger for him.

Shoots animal.
Drops on impact, dead.
Complains.

Weird.

 

[Allen Kitts]

Well what you described will probably be on Bergers website later as their explanation of exactly what kind of performance a customer can expect. That is how they are designed to work. You should know your bullet and what kind of performance you can expect before you hunt with them.

 

[Allen Kitts]

odd man out here. 6.5 Creedmoor 140gr Elite Hunter. VERY accurate but on a perfect broadside shot on a Texas Whitetail, the first shot, he ran. We waited, then proceeded to recover. He jumped up and ran about 50 yards, stopped. I shot again, hit him and a big blood clot blew out of the first "hole". He took a few steps and collapsed. Upon retrieving, the first shot "penciled" clean through. I guess the bullet needed more speed to perform as above.

Speed is one of the determining factors but that is true for almost every bullet, you also need to make sure you check the tips. Bergers have very small openings in the end and some may have minor obstructions in the tip or even be closed off completely A very small drill bit to the tip of each one will clean them out and help to make sure they expand. If the tip is closed/blocked there is a very good chance that you will get no expansion at all and pencil through as you explained. I know exactly what you experienced as I have experienced it as well. Unfortunately there are no perfect bullets and sometimes **** happens. Glad you got your buck.

 

[BrentM]

140gr Berger elite hunter out of a 6.5prc. Hunting Cow elk but also had an either sex mule deer tag. Shot a doe at 110 yards. Perfectly through the ribs. Dropped like a stone. When I opened her up the entire internal cavity had been scrambled. Bullet came apart and the concussion combined with bullet fragments tore through the diaphragm. Gut material, plant bits and the like had sucked out the exit hole. I found gut material forced into the meat along the spine. Exit wound was the size of a quarter. Has anyone experienced this? Bullet was right behind the shoulders right through the middle. Scared to use these again if they do anything similar. Appreciate any thoughts. thanks

My rifle was used on 4 mule deer. Running 143's and 135's, Hornady. Prior I had multiple 6.5-284's running 140 bergers and 147 hornady. Took a few deer with it. None had that much damage but most had bullet explosions which created a huge internal damage. None were bad enough or bad enough damage to touch gut material. Fortunately all were very well placed boiler room impacts. I have also killed a pile of wolves and yotes with the PRC and 2848 without any significant issues but as mentioned above, not really a berger guy but it seems like the berger hunter should not be that destructive with a well placed shot.

 

[Robert23430]

As you indicated, the bullet worked as designed. I would suggest aiming for high shoulder shots, straight up the leg and center of the body as recommended by James Eagleman with Barber Creek Long Range Shooting and Hunting School:

 

[Mickp7]

A bit overkill, I know, but I was hunting antelope a couple weeks ago with the 180 berger hybrid in a 7 PRC. The group busted us several times before we relocated and stalked them from another ridge, offering about a 200- 250 yard shot. Wind was bad and they busted us again. Buck stopped briefly at 700 so I let one go (I had dialed for 600, but no shot was offered so I added a few more moa with the reticle). Went in high on the facing shoulder and left a softball size exit wound on the other shoulder. I'd post a picture but I'm not sure it is appropriate for internet, even here.

I suspect that fragmentation could be even more dramatic at closer ranges (higher speeds), but I thought that was pretty impressive for that distance.

 

[dhbikerczar]

140gr Berger elite hunter out of a 6.5prc. Hunting Cow elk but also had an either sex mule deer tag. Shot a doe at 110 yards. Perfectly through the ribs. Dropped like a stone. When I opened her up the entire internal cavity had been scrambled. Bullet came apart and the concussion combined with bullet fragments tore through the diaphragm. Gut material, plant bits and the like had sucked out the exit hole. I found gut material forced into the meat along the spine. Exit wound was the size of a quarter. Has anyone experienced this? Bullet was right behind the shoulders right through the middle. Scared to use these again if they do anything similar. Appreciate any thoughts. thanks

This is exactly why I do not hunt with Bergers. This is what they do. I've been happy with the 143 ELDX in my 6.5 SAUM. They punch through and do not detonate.

 

[Chisholm Trail]

Berger bullets are fragmenting bullets on impact by design.



I had long used Nosler and Hornady bullets (I still do, though) before transitioning to Berger bullets as my go-to bullets in 2003. One of the things I like about Berger bullets is that they do not have to have an exit wound to be effective. I no longer worry about pass-throughs or bullet weight retention. Also, it reduces the risk of shooting what is behind the target.

I am not here to convince you that Berger bullets are magic bullets because there is no such thing despite any claims, and you should use them. Pick the bullet that is best suited for your hunting needs. As with anything else, we all have different personal preferences and experiences. I am a sucker for trying different types of bullets from various manufacturers, but Berger has served me well for a couple of decades now and still going strong.

Be advised that you will receive varying opinions, some off-topic, hijacking your thread.

Good luck, and have a happy and safe hunt.

Agree!

 

[marksman1941]

Show me a bullet and I'll show someone on the internet that had a problem with it.


Here is a study/article on hydrostatic shock.....take from it what you will.

Hydrostatic shock

Thanks for the link! I'd be curious to see the scientific research that others have based their opinions on

 

[Michiganhunter]

No, don't know if I've ever seen hydrostatic shock, especially from a Berger bullet. The last two elk took two and the next one three shots to put them down. I have experienced better bullet performance with Barnes bullets. To me now Berger's aren't worth the money. The Hammer is better than Berger, but Barnes is still tough to beat. Going to try some new ones from North Fork (Sweeden) this fall. Hydrostatic shock? Really? Believe in the boogie man too?

Hydrostatic Shock? My son's first buck was shot at about 60 yards with my Thompson Center Muzzle loader. The 250 grain Sabot never exited, but ended up under the skin of the opposite shoulder. When it hit him his whole body shook, and he dropped on the spot. Didn't take a step. Pretty sure the boggy man shook him to death!! lol we were in a pop up blind and will never forget it!! I'm pretty sure that was the very definition of hydrostatic shock.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

So my respectful question is if the Berger elite hunter sheds 50 to 90 percent of it weight and destroys heart and lung tissue ,and fragments to also damage other organs ,is that not what is wanted in a hunting bullet designed for soft skinned game ?? I have never tried them but it seems as if they were designed to cause as much internal damage as possible !! Is that not good ??? That's what my ballistic tips do and I think they kill whitetail deer very well . Just trying to find the negative in the Berger Elite . Please. Share the wisdom !!

 

[VinceMule]

7/08-140g Berger VLD Hunting
2850 MV

Buck came out just at last shooting light. Neice took the shot at 400 but thought it was 300. The bullet hit the buck 2" from the bottom of the brisket, right behind the shoulder. Bullet fragments went through the heart, buck was found the next morning 75 yards from point of impact.

Bergers seem to frag more than std nosler ballistic tips in my experience. So, I shoot heavy for caliber Bergers, but the Niece will never shoot another bullet other than the 140g VLD Hunting in her 7/08...the buck was a monster!

 

[Old Rooster]

FEENEX said,"I no longer worry about pass-throughs or bullet weight retention. Also, it reduces the risk of shooting what is behind the target."
That is one reason I have not given up on Bergers and still have 2 boxes of 30 cal 185 gr VLD's in the ammo safe.
We have entirely too many hunters and not enough elk here in our area and I have contemplated shots and glad I did not shoot as folks were seen in my spotter a few minutes later.
Bergers are very accurate bullets but takes getting used to almost never a pass through. This is just my thoughts on Bergers.
Edit to add: I may go up in weight in the future as many have told me the same as FEENEX and VinceMule. Thanks