So, after I got my head back on straight... I was just thinking, if I had a .37" inch near .38" inch projectile, weighing in at 128grs and at a velocity of 1200 fps, which was rounded not pointed, what would be near its performance level? Perhaps a 9mm or a weak .357 Mag in that weight of bullet 128gr? Granted tungsten has a much harder density than lead and copper.
Looking at distances; let's use the 30 yards mentioned rather than 10 yards... so in your experience and/or you've tested the tungsten load and got a 3" inch spread at 10 yards, Ok... then let's call it 9" at 30 yards, I think it would be larger at 30 yards, I'd think at 30 yards you might be looking at 20" to 25" inches of spread, but... we'll go with a pie plate size of 9" plus.
Back to the tungsten buckshot, .38 cal 128gr at 1200 fps, I'd say even from a handgun with that muzzle velocity would be a pretty weak load at 30 yards... granted you have more than one buckshot, but... they aren't hitting one behind the other so to speak... this doesn't seem to be an advantage over a Brenneke hard cast 602gr slug at 1502 fps and 3014 fpe with something in the order of 2" groups at 50 yards, that I have tested from my rifle barreled Ithica M37... and I was kind of thinking if the 10 yards group for the tungsten buckshot was 3" and the Brenneke, well it's diameter .72" inch with a semi pointed projectile, I'd think the possible miss factor(s) might be near the same, but... penetration is definitely on the side of the hard cast 12ga slug.
Now I'm speaking from an observation position on the subject, obviously, your experience plays into this conversation with a lot of authority, you live there and you have Bears we have black Teddy bears near where I am. But... I have traveled and fished the backcountry of Alaska over the years and from what I could gather at the time the slug was my best choice for what I was doing, yeah... if I was hunting big Grizz or Browns I'd have a big rifle, low end .375 H&H I have lived in Grizz country when we live in Idaho and most folks packed a fruit salad of firearms there for bear. I'm not trying to change your mind, as I said, you have what seems to be a lot of knowledge on the bear subject, I'm just having a conversation with another hunter. Cheers
The only advantage to TSS buckshot for a first round bear defense 12ga load, is forgiveness on head shots if my aim is slightly off. Use a pistol, revolver, or any firearm shooting a single projectile, and you have to place that single projectile into an ~6" diameter to brain a bear.
If my TSS buckshot load shoots an 8" pattern at 30 yds, my point of aim kill zone becomes ~14" diameter circle at 30yds. If my point of aim is 7" off the center of brain, I can still expect a TSS pellet to hit the brain. 3" (1/2 the width of the brain) plus 4" (1/2 the width of my TSS buckshot pattern). (3" + 4") X 2 = 14" diameter kill zone. Compared to 6" diameter with a single projectile. A substantial advantage, in my opinion.
If you can pinpoint the brain with a Brenneke slug or any other single projectile, of course that single projectile will produce a kill shot. The TSS buckshot load allows me to drop the bear with a head shot at 30yds even if the center of my TSS buckshot pattern is 7" off from dead centering the brain. This maximizes my chance if dropping the bear with my first shot.
If my first TSS buckshot load fails to drop the bear, the Brenneke slugs in the 870 mag will be pumped into the center of mass of the bear. Until the bear, or I, is/are dead.
Concerning depth of penetration of TSS buckshot pellets? The #0000 TSS buckshot penetrated as deeply into a live birch tree trunk as a hard cast 435gr slug from my 500 S&W revolver, launched atv1,250fps. The penetration of the TSS #1B was about 3" less than the #0000 buck. Plenty of penetration to brain a bear.
Your unbelief of the tight patterns with TSS pellets or buckshot would be a consequence of having never patterned TSS pellets on cardboard. TSS patterns are unbelievably tight, compared to lead pellets, because they're manufactured as perfect spheres, and remain perfect spheres thru launch, flight, and after impact.
An example of TSS pattern tightness..., I flat out dropped a Sandhill crane at 133yds with a 12ga load consisting of a duplex load of 1oz #4s and 1oz #5s. The crane was hit with 5 pellets and all pellets completely penetrated/exited the body. The crane was dead on impact. I didn't hit the crane I was shooting at. I hit the trailing crane which was 4 foot behind, and 2 feet lower than the one I aimed at. When I hunt cranes with TSS shotshells, I take along my Lazer rangefinder so I'll know my holdover heights. The TSS pellet pattern, and energy, remain lethal at such long distances that I need to know my holdovers past 80yds. My Sandhill crane load puts 50% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 100yds. 77% of the pellets into a 30" diameter circle at 80yds. Try that with lead shot pellets. Not gonna happen with lead.
