Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
In almost any imaginable bear defense scenario it might all come down to which weapon you can deploy the most rapidly. But then again, I'm just armchair quarterbacking.
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12GA Rounds for Grizz?
- Thread starter Backcountry_IDN
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Deploy quickly, calmly and effectively!
As for the armchair comment, on these forums that's the general rule especially when it comes to bears and elk.......
As the late Col Jeff Cooper implored, "There ain't many troubles that a man caint fix with seven hundred dollars for a thirty ought six. If you find yourself under lethal attack don't be kind. Be harsh. Be tough. Be ruthless. Your mind-set is your primary weapon You gun is your backup. Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight. If you are attacked, retaliate instantly. Be sudden. Be quick. Speed is your salvation. Under any sort of attack, keep cool. And if you must shoot, shoot with precision. The one who anticipates the action wins. The one who does not, loses. Speed is the absolute essence of any form of combat. Aggressiveness carries with it an incalculable moral edge in any combat, offensive or defensive." Seems pretty sage advise for two- or four-legged predators. Thank you for your wise intellect. RIP Jeff Cooper. Appears mind set trumps any weapon choice.Deploy quickly, calmly and effectively!
As for the armchair comment, on these forums that's the general rule especially when it comes to bears and elk.......
calling4life
Well-Known Member
So, let me get this straight, say we can control all of this and we have this scenario to remove doubt.
You are cemented to the ground and starting 50yds away is a 1400lb Brown Bear that will kill you if he can, this is not a bear that will be deterred this bear is coming to see you dead, period. Point here is, you have to stop the bear to end this, no outrunning a friend or maybe he'll leave from the noise.
If I said:
You can have a bolt gun in any of the Africa dangerous game calibers, that is, 375s, 404, 416s, 458s, 500 Jeffery etc...
You can have a double rifle in any of the Africa dangerous game calibers, 450 NE, 470 NE, 500 NE, 600 NE, etc...
Or you can have a 12 gauge with the Brennek slug.
Are you serious that you would choose the 12 gauge with a slug?
"The USDA Forest Service in Alaska requires at least one member of each work party to carry a rifle. The most common weapon issued is a bolt action magazine rifle chambered for the .375 H&H Magnum cartridge. Commercial ammunition is used exclusively. For handiness in the dense brush cover of the Alaska coast, most of these rifles have barrels shortened to 20 inches. Receiver (peep) sights or factory installed open sights are used; recoil pads and slings are usually present. "
A bit on why I wouldn't exactly trust what Gov't uses, mind you, I'm a Gov't employee myself working in law enforcement, we have to use what's provided, whether it's the best or even decent given other options doesn't matter, the equipment may have been chosen for price reasons, quantity available, general usage vs something geared more towards a specific use etc... that along with many other reasons.
And you have stuff like this, those with "strong aversion" may be deciding what's getting bought.
"In the past, most Forest Service professionals working where brown bears occur had personally acquired experience with firearms. In recent years, however, the Forest Service has employed many persons with little or no experience with firearms, and some with a strong aversion to them."
Anyways, I'll leave this be, as I do believe in individual freedom and autonomy and therefore one's choice to use what they wish, I've also been in too many several hour discussions over this that simply get poisoned by emotion and they just don't end up worth it.
But I would love to read your response to my question at the beginning of this post.
jimisbell
Well-Known Member
If you lay a 500 Jeffery and a 500 Nitro Express double gun on the ground and ask me to pick just before you pour that concrete around my feet, I will pick the 500 Nitro Express double....because it has 2 rounds.
Now if you add a KSG 25 Pump to the stack, fully loaded with 21 rounds of 3"12GA slugs. I will pick up the KSG 25.
I have one of these. Sure its heavy with 21 rounds loaded, but it fits the job and the person. Last time I was out with it I had a smallish (5' 140 pounds) girl friend with me and she had an 870 Pump. She is an accomplished clay bird shooter. She asked if she could try a few shots with the KSG 25. She took it and placed it against her shoulder and before even firing a shot she said, "Get me one of these!!!" It just plain fits the human body like a glove. I am now searching for one for her, she will love me forever.
Now if you add a KSG 25 Pump to the stack, fully loaded with 21 rounds of 3"12GA slugs. I will pick up the KSG 25.
I have one of these. Sure its heavy with 21 rounds loaded, but it fits the job and the person. Last time I was out with it I had a smallish (5' 140 pounds) girl friend with me and she had an 870 Pump. She is an accomplished clay bird shooter. She asked if she could try a few shots with the KSG 25. She took it and placed it against her shoulder and before even firing a shot she said, "Get me one of these!!!" It just plain fits the human body like a glove. I am now searching for one for her, she will love me forever.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Under the specific conditions outlined above, I guess I'd take the 575 T-Rex, or whatever you call it, and have my shoulder fixed later. LOL
Its real easy to debate the subject until you TRULY have to experience the possibility of your life, those around you are going to be viciously torn apart with zero mercy and with extreme animal rage.
So if you had to protect yourself and those around you, what would you really take? I have a cousin that lives in backcountry of AK, I know he has a .375 by the front door and one by the backdoor. He has had his share of back country salesmen clawing at his door so he stays within reach of one. My Aunt visited him ONCE! She walked out onto porch in morning with cup of coffee and there was a sow and 2 cubs 50 yds. Cousin carefully pulled her back into cabin. She never left the inside again until time to return to upstate NY.
He lives with them, respects the crap out of them, BUT keeps a .375 always in reach. He believes its minimal power to get their attention.
I truly like the 12 and especially in M4 platform. I THINK it would work from my non big nasty bear experience which means nothing. Reality, if no experience with them, I would listen to my cousin and pick up a .375.
So if you had to protect yourself and those around you, what would you really take? I have a cousin that lives in backcountry of AK, I know he has a .375 by the front door and one by the backdoor. He has had his share of back country salesmen clawing at his door so he stays within reach of one. My Aunt visited him ONCE! She walked out onto porch in morning with cup of coffee and there was a sow and 2 cubs 50 yds. Cousin carefully pulled her back into cabin. She never left the inside again until time to return to upstate NY.
He lives with them, respects the crap out of them, BUT keeps a .375 always in reach. He believes its minimal power to get their attention.
I truly like the 12 and especially in M4 platform. I THINK it would work from my non big nasty bear experience which means nothing. Reality, if no experience with them, I would listen to my cousin and pick up a .375.
Get ready to feel the love.
Yes, I'd use my 12ga 870 to defend against any charging bear on planet earth. Above and beyond any rifle from 35yds on in. Some 1 3/8oz Brenneke slugs would be in the magazine.
I'm not hunting bear with my 870. I'm stopping bears at close ranges.
My first round is tungsten buckshot. 9 pellets of #1 buckshot, and 1 pellet of #0000. Tungsten #1 buckshot penetrated 9" of live birch tree trunk in my penetration test. The #0000 tungsten penetrated 14" of live birch trunk. I load these tungsten shells for head shots.
The tungsten buckshot will hit the face of the bear at ~25-30yds, and I'll likely never have to fire the Brenneke slugs. But they would be in my 870 magazine. In case the bear morphed into Tyrannosaurus Rex or Godzilla.
We did finish a wounded grizzly close up in the willows with this combination a few years ago. Deadly...
If I didn't have the tungsten buckshot, I wouldn't feel short changed with solely the Brenneke slugs.
Now, you owe me for the love
Ckgworks
Well-Known Member
I'm not hunting bear with my 870. I'm stopping bears at close ranges.
Boom, bingo...........
what would be really interesting is to poll all the people who've chimed in on this thread and see how many of them have actually been on the ground in the woods with a G-Bear..........
Boom, bingo...........
what would be really interesting is to poll all the people who've chimed in on this thread and see how many of them have actually been on the ground in the woods with a G-Bear..........
jimisbell
Well-Known Member
I havent, and I imagine many more are like me and dont intend to be. But I have experience with the three guns that I have talked about.
Yes, I load the tungsten buckshot. I don't know of any source of factory loaded tungsten buckshot.
But the tungsten buckshot pellets are available for purchase. Expensive! Tungsten pellets are expensive, no matter the size of the pellets.
