12GA Rounds for Grizz?

[Pro2A]

I started to bring up an example similar to this but a slight few just don't seem to hear. Glad you said it.

On the topic of killing bears at short range - For years in the Ontario Museum in Toronto, there was a skull of a big black bear with a tiny hole between its eyes. An Indian boy about 8 years old was checking the family trap line, and carrying a little single shot rifle loaded with a .22 short (for minimal damage to a pelt). Going through a dense berry patch he surprised the bear and it charged. He shot it from a few feet away, hit the only thin spot in the bear's skull, and it dropped dead at his feet.

Proves once again......the more one practices, the luckier they become. Better to be lucky than good.....but, always prepare well so one is good when luck don't show up.

For consideration, a slug is a single point, 00 buck is a pattern even close. Miss the critical point with a slug, ricochet off the side of the armor -like skull. May not have second chance. With a pattern one has more opportunities to get that golden pellet up the nose, along the nasal passage into the brain for a lights out terminus Maybe why many alternate slugs and buck.

 

[DJ Morrison]

I agree with the shotgun. Alternate 00, slug. Spent time in both Alaska and BC, Montana and Wyoming. Our bear behavior in Wyoming is bad. They know they are "untouchable". Grizzlies are tough critters, but when they move, they move fast. Arctic grizzlies are much smaller, but scrappier. they will hunt anything. Fortunately, I have never been charged, but have spent lots of days in bear country. Brownies are cool critters. If they are fishing, they are pretty chill as a poster said earlier. Having been around them a few times, I don't want one charging me, but if i do, then i want a shotgun. When fishing, i have been with guides with pistols, rifles and shotguns. What ever works the best for you in your hands when that time comes is what you should use.

 

[Radman]

I agree with the shotgun. Alternate 00, slug. Spent time in both Alaska and BC, Montana and Wyoming. Our bear behavior in Wyoming is bad. They know they are "untouchable". Grizzlies are tough critters, but when they move, they move fast. Arctic grizzlies are much smaller, but scrappier. they will hunt anything. Fortunately, I have never been charged, but have spent lots of days in bear country. Brownies are cool critters. If they are fishing, they are pretty chill as a poster said earlier. Having been around them a few times, I don't want one charging me, but if i do, then i want a shotgun. When fishing, i have been with guides with pistols, rifles and shotguns. What ever works the best for you in your hands when that time comes is what you should use.

I enjoyed reading your post. Bet that you've seen some interesting stuff.

 

[Rick79]

How many times did you hit him with the 10mm? Did you do any type of post mortem, and which BB load were you using? Thx bro.

I had my .40 with me on that trip, didn't have to use the 10mm on the last one.

Of the 15 rounds, I'd say 10-11 were hits for sure. I would bet that more of them hit than that though. This was not my first high stress shooting event and the range was so close missing would have been pretty hard.

Per federal fish and game, we had to leave it as it fell, the head was lifted for the picture. We even asked if they wanted us to cape it to save the hide and were told not to. It was warm enough the hide had slipped by the next morning. If they did a post mortem we did not hear anything back on it. From what we heard, it was over a month later before the Federal guy was able to go in to collect the remains and finish his part of the investigation. Yes, it did go to a federal and state DA to see if they wanted to press charges. It was a justified DLP, so none were ever filed.

The shotguns the guides carried has 00 buckshot. They also carried a "fire cracker" round for the 12ga to try to scare bears away if they were able to.

Fed guy: did you have bear spray?
Me: yes
Fed: where was it?
Me: on my left hip
Fed: where was your pistol and why did you choose it?
Me: on my right hip and I trusted it more than a can of spray
Fed: at what point did you start shooting?
Me: when the guide said "shoot the MF'r!!"

 

[Muddyboots]

So what would you think of a steel dowel pin in a 12 GA sabot at 1500-1700 for for close range penetration? I bet it would penetrate even a T-Rex skull! Never tried to reload something like this but I recall somebody doing this for close range hogs. No clue when or where. I use these sabots for .50 cal pistol bullets and tried Hornady ML conicals.

 

[calling4life]

Jesus these threads are always dumpster fires

This is for bear defense, yes?

We have 400,000 yr old spears, imagine in 400,000 years how many animals and humans have fallen to spears.

I'm still not going to recommend them, but let's talk 22s, because they are incredibly relevant here...

Slugs have wretched sectional densities, sectional density being a good predictor of straight line penetration, especially in solids.

That Brenneke carried about a 160 sectional density, it's worse than a 147gr 9mm.

And for the recoil... jesus there are so many better options it is absolutely ridiculous.

We're lucky that most bears will leave at our presence, most of those that don't will leave with a little convincing, most of those that still remain will leave with a little more forceful "ask", finding the bear that just has to kill you is a rare bit of luck.

If that should happen, statistical probability of deep straight-line penetration is your friend, in Africa they like .300+ sectional density for dangerous game.

You can get several Africa calibers and have similar recoil, 375 H&H wouldn't be a bad choice.

I went 458 lott.

Shotguns are generally recommended as they are ubiquitous and anything is better than nothing.

So if it's a shotgun or nothing, have at it, otherwise, save the shotgun for hunting them over bait, shooting a treed bear, coyotes, they can do alright on whitetail.

 

[Pdvdh]

I, nor any other seasoned Alaskan hunter I know, could agree with much of anything presented in post #132.

If you wanna hunt bear, hunt with a rifle. If you wanna stop an ugly, in-your-face bear, carry a 12ga Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs.

After many decades of use, it's still the standard carry weapon issued by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, for bear defense.
ADFG employees that conduct salmon surveys of salmon streams, in the midst of brown bear, carry the 870. Nuisance bear complaint responders carry the 870. I carry the 870 for situations demanding the utmost ability to stop a nasty bear, such as returning to a game kill site to salvage the remaining meat.

It's the most common weapon and ammo used by bear guards, hired by oil company contractors, to protect field crews/workers, where I live on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula.

An arrow has a higher sectional density than most hunting bullets. Who uses arrows for bear defense?

Brenneke slugs at close ranges, flatten big animals. And the pump action allows multiple quick shots, should they be needed due to some panicky shot placement.

 

[30378wbymag]

I had my .40 with me on that trip, didn't have to use the 10mm on the last one.

Of the 15 rounds, I'd say 10-11 were hits for sure. I would bet that more of them hit than that though. This was not my first high stress shooting event and the range was so close missing would have been pretty hard.

Per federal fish and game, we had to leave it as it fell, the head was lifted for the picture. We even asked if they wanted us to cape it to save the hide and were told not to. It was warm enough the hide had slipped by the next morning. If they did a post mortem we did not hear anything back on it. From what we heard, it was over a month later before the Federal guy was able to go in to collect the remains and finish his part of the investigation. Yes, it did go to a federal and state DA to see if they wanted to press charges. It was a justified DLP, so none were ever filed.

The shotguns the guides carried has 00 buckshot. They also carried a "fire cracker" round for the 12ga to try to scare bears away if they were able to.

Fed guy: did you have bear spray?
Me: yes
Fed: where was it?
Me: on my left hip
Fed: where was your pistol and why did you choose it?
Me: on my right hip and I trusted it more than a can of spray
Fed: at what point did you start shooting?
Me: when the guide said "shoot the MF'r!!"

Rick,
Thanks much for the prompt informative response, much appreciated!!! BUTT pucker moment for sure!!!

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I, nor any other seasoned Alaskan hunter I know, could agree with much of anything presented in post #132.

If you wanna hunt bear, hunt with a rifle. If you wanna stop an ugly, in-your-face bear, carry a 12ga Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs.

After many decades of use, it's still the standard carry weapon issued by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, for bear defense.
ADFG employees that conduct salmon surveys of salmon streams, in the midst of brown bear, carry the 870. Nuisance bear complaint responders carry the 870. I carry the 870 for situations demanding the utmost ability to stop a nasty bear, such as returning to a game kill site to salvage the remaining meat.

It's the most common weapon and ammo used by bear guards, hired by oil company contractors, to protect field crews/workers, where I live on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula.

An arrow has a higher sectional density than most hunting bullets. Who uses arrows for bear defense?

Brenneke slugs at close ranges, flatten big animals. And the pump action allows multiple quick shots, should they be needed due to some panicky shot placement.

I don't ever expect to be hunting/hiking in a place & at a time where a charging grizzly bear is a real concern, but if I was, you just convinced me what I'd need to be carrying.

 

[Pdvdh]

I don't ever expect to be hunting/hiking in a place & at a time where a charging grizzly bear is a real concern, but if I was, you just convinced me what I'd need to be carrying.

I can say that hunting and camping in bear-abundant country will add spice to a hunt. I don't mean bear pepper spray. More like adrenalin...
Prepare to sleep lightly...

 

[436]

I, nor any other seasoned Alaskan hunter I know, could agree with much of anything presented in post #132.

If you wanna hunt bear, hunt with a rifle. If you wanna stop an ugly, in-your-face bear, carry a 12ga Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs.

After many decades of use, it's still the standard carry weapon issued by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, for bear defense.
ADFG employees that conduct salmon surveys of salmon streams, in the midst of brown bear, carry the 870. Nuisance bear complaint responders carry the 870. I carry the 870 for situations demanding the utmost ability to stop a nasty bear, such as returning to a game kill site to salvage the remaining meat.

It's the most common weapon and ammo used by bear guards, hired by oil company contractors, to protect field crews/workers, where I live on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula.

An arrow has a higher sectional density than most hunting bullets. Who uses arrows for bear defense?

Brenneke slugs at close ranges, flatten big animals. And the pump action allows multiple quick shots, should they be needed due to some panicky shot placement.

Nailed it!

 

[dogz]

I can say that hunting and camping in bear-abundant country will add spice to a hunt. I don't mean bear pepper spray. More like adrenalin...
Prepare to sleep lightly...

Things that go thud in the middle of the night

 

[Hugnot]

The Brenneke is sort of a 12 ga. wadcutter. It leaves nice clean cut holes in paper. It should also penetrate better than the hollow base Foster type 12 ga slugs. Upon entering into some big beast's body the Brenneke should sever tissue rather than pushing it aside (real bloody). I have only used the Brenneke's against paper targets. When I first shot the Brenneke's they had felt wads screwed against the back of the lead slug. A 12 ga pump gun would shoot faster than a .375 but if I hunted any bear or similar beast I would go for the .375, shoot a big one at 75-100 yards, but for self defense close up it would be the 12 ga.

 

[wwbrown]

If I had to choose an optimum gun to come out of a fight with any bear that was not black might be a 16" barreled AR-10 in a 375 Raptor. At the ranges you would be using it in a defensive mode I am not sure the end results would be any different than a 375 H&H or the 375 Ruger that I use for bear hunting,

10 rounds of 300 grains 375 bullets might deflect a big bear.