1000 yds...Next step?

[backwoods83]

That's the long version of what I meant, if its fl sized it'll go in any chamber that's in spec, even if its almost to sloppy.

 

[WildRose]

That's the long version of what I meant, if its fl sized it'll go in any chamber that's in spec, even if its almost to sloppy.

Just picking up where you left off... .gun)

 

[Bart B]

No, in this procedure you are not partially resizing the body unless you are working with a caliber that has a straight case from the base to the shoulder. When you set the die such that it just bumps the shoulder and then back it off, you stop before reaching the shoulder at all.

When the neck length grows beyond spec, I'll set the die down to bump and then turn it down another .003, work the cases, which would essentially be partial full length resizing, and then trim all the cases about .001 shorter than spec.

What cartridge case are you resizing with this process?

 

[Bart B]

In response to my comments about proper full length sizing vs. neck only sizing aligning cases the same:

I've got to say that this flies in the face of everything I've ever learned about reloading including just about everything written on the subject.

Imagine a rimless bottleneck round whose body diameters are a few thousandths smaller than chamber diameters around it and its case headspace (head to shoulder datum) is 3 thousandths shorter than chamber headspace. The case neck's well centered on the case shoulder. And its neck diameter's several thousandths smaller than the chamber neck diameter. The case shoulder angle's within one degree of being the same as the chamber shoulder's angle.

Chamber that round in a rifle whose bolt has an in-line ejector in it such as Remington 700's or the push-feed Winchester 70's. That spring loaded ejector's going to push the round into the chamber until its shoulder stops against the chamber shoulder. There's plenty of clearance between the extractor lip and bolt face to allow this.

Where does the case shoulder align itself relative to the chamber shoulder?

If the action's a push feed Mauser style without the in-line ejector in the bolt face, where does the case shoulder align itself relative to the chamber shoulder when the firing pin drives the case forward as it impacts the primer?

For either ejector type, if the round's leade space (distance from case head to datum on the bullet's ogive at contact point with the lands in the barrel's leade) is 1 thousanths shorter than chamber leade space (bolt fact to the same datum diameter in the barrel's leade), where does the bullet center when the round's chambered as well as when it's fired?

 

[RMulhern]

The 155 Sierra .30 caliber Palma bullet is probably one of the most accurate bullets around used in competitive Palma shooting! Out of a 30" barrel and using Varget it will bust 3000 fps wide open! Anyone shooting this bullet needs a 1-13 or 1-14 twist rate. I had the occasion to coach Nancy Tompkins on a couple of occasions in years past shooting 1000 yards and the vertical she held at the target was right around 1/2 the diameter of the X ring which is 10" at 1000 yds.

 

[Bart B]

The 155 Sierra .30 caliber Palma bullet is probably one of the most accurate bullets around used in competitive Palma shooting! Out of a 30" barrel and using Varget it will bust 3000 fps wide open! Anyone shooting this bullet needs a 1-13 or 1-14 twist rate. I had the occasion to coach Nancy Tompkins on a couple of occasions in years past shooting 1000 yards and the vertical she held at the target was right around 1/2 the diameter of the X ring which is 10" at 1000 yds.

I agree about that bullet. I shot the high 5-day aggregate score with that bullet back in 1991 when it was first used in competition at 600 through 1000 yards. Several folks from around the world were there as well as several top ranked people in the USA. Most reported that ammo would shoot 1/2 MOA at 600 or better; and under 3/4 MOA at 1000. Not too shabby for new cases, charge weight spread at 3/10ths grain and bullet runout up to 3/1000ths in a variety of chamber, bore and groove dimensions.

 

[diderr]

the best thing to do is take it in steps. if you feel comfortable at a range step back another 100 yards, when you get comfortable at that range step back another 100 yards, etc.. Soon you'll be pushing your rifle's limits and not yours. Your handloads are plenty accurate for that far. Remember that small inconsistencies are magnified 10 fold at that distance.

 

[WildRose]

the best thing to do is take it in steps. if you feel comfortable at a range step back another 100 yards, when you get comfortable at that range step back another 100 yards, etc.. Soon you'll be pushing your rifle's limits and not yours. Your handloads are plenty accurate for that far. Remember that small inconsistencies are magnified 10 fold at that distance.

Man you just stole my thunder. I was thinking the same thing on the way home.... . Great minds! gun)

No one starts off shooting 600-1,000yds. One way or another we all had to work our way out.

My first shot at over 400yds was with a 700bdl 7mm Remington mag with open sights on a prairie dog. My mentor was with me, spotting him and said "take him" and I laughed and said all I can see is the mound. He said, well he's top center at 12o'clock standing on his hind legs. I fired, huge dust cloud and I was proud as hell that I'd hit so close. He had a scope and said, "you weren't close, there' pieces of prarie dog strung out for 50yds!

I dind't believe him until we walked down there. Sure enough 418 paces to the hole and pieces of prairie dog strung out for forty paces beyond.

Afew months later I was picking feral pigeons off of the top of an old grainery from the ground with my dad's old Remington Pump 22.

I looked like a country version of rat patrol riding my old bycicle all over the country carrying a rifle tied to the handle bars looking for targets... .

Man to be 14 and starting all of this again... .

Take your time, work your way out, each success will bring more confidence that you can keep moving it out.

 

[Decay]

Originally Posted by diderr
the best thing to do is take it in steps. if you feel comfortable at a range step back another 100 yards, when you get comfortable at that range step back another 100 yards, etc.. Soon you'll be pushing your rifle's limits and not yours. Your handloads are plenty accurate for that far. Remember that small inconsistencies are magnified 10 fold at that distance.

Man you just stole my thunder. I was thinking the same thing on the way home.... . Great minds! gun)

No one starts off shooting 600-1,000yds. One way or another we all had to work our way out.

My first shot at over 400yds was with a 700bdl 7mm Remington mag with open sights on a prairie dog. My mentor was with me, spotting him and said "take him" and I laughed and said all I can see is the mound. He said, well he's top center at 12o'clock standing on his hind legs. I fired, huge dust cloud and I was proud as hell that I'd hit so close. He had a scope and said, "you weren't close, there' pieces of prarie dog strung out for 50yds!

I dind't believe him until we walked down there. Sure enough 418 paces to the hole and pieces of prairie dog strung out for forty paces beyond.

Afew months later I was picking feral pigeons off of the top of an old grainery from the ground with my dad's old Remington Pump 22.

I looked like a country version of rat patrol riding my old bycicle all over the country carrying a rifle tied to the handle bars looking for targets... .

Man to be 14 and starting all of this again... .

Take your time, work your way out, each success will bring more confidence that you can keep moving it out.

Thanks guys.

I looked a heavier bullets today and had the same realization that you two mentioned "just get out and shoot". This is the mentality I took when I started shooting around x-mas. Everyone was telling me "gotta bed/pillar" "you have to start reloading" Etc....What I did was bought 300 rounds of ammo, laid in the field, and shot them over the course of a couple months. Doing this helped me know exactly what I needed to work on.

I lost track of the journey and looked at the goal once I got bored at my current setting (stock done, loads found, stretched out my range as far as I could).

I think im going to work in the 500-600yd range for a while (like others have suggested). Once I feel good there I will back it up.

If things go awry I will then focus of heavier bullets/velocity/ect.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Bart B]

No one starts off shooting 600-1,000yds. One way or another we all had to work our way out.

That depends on the marksmanship skills they have, their knowledge of ballistics and the requirements of doing well at long range.

I've seen folks start out at 800 yards in their first Palma match. Having never shot any rifle other than a rimfire .22 at short range, they've layed down on the 800 yard line and busted their first centerfire round in their brand new rifle with brand new handloads. They had figured out that there was enough time after firing their first shot to quick look through their spotting scope and see where the bullet struck the dirt somewhere around their target. Make a sight adjustment and their next shot was on the 6 x 6 foot target paper. Couple more shots to zero up and they're off an running. No, they won't shoot scores as well as the best do, but I've seen them place in the top half of all the scores fired. And they've shot much better than some folks who've been doing it for years.

Helped a guy build his first centerfire rifle some years ago. It was a Palma rifle made for 800 to 1000 yard competition. Showed him how to load his first ammo with my tools and he put together 50 rounds with new cases. Went to a 100-yard range where he layed down slung up in prone then fired 5 shots to get a good zero with his aperture sights. Then told him how to calculate his "shooting boresight" by first running Sierra Bullets' software and using the same muzzle velocity as my rifle got with the same barrel length and load. After seeing how much the bullet dropped at 100 yards, he then calculated how much his rear sight moved impact at 800 yards per click based on the rifle's 35.5 inch sight radius. Next, he adjusted the rear sight down to move bullet impact at 100 yards down about two inches for bullet drop then another 1.6 inches for the front sight height above bore axis.

He calculated bullet drop at 800 yards for the atmospheric conditions at the range then adjusted the rear sight up for his calculated 800 yard zero. Estimated a slight correction for wind then fired his first shot since his first 5 getting a zero at 100 yards. It struck about 4 inches off from where he called the shot. Firing 15 shots at 800, 900 and 1000 yards, about 70% of them were in the 20 inch 10-ring, 25% in the 30" 9 ring and the remaining 5% in the 44" 8 ring.

 

[WildRose]

That depends on the marksmanship skills they have, their knowledge of ballistics and the requirements of doing well at long range.

I've seen folks start out at 800 yards in their first Palma match. Having never shot any rifle other than a rimfire .22 at short range, they've layed down on the 800 yard line and busted their first centerfire round in their brand new rifle with brand new handloads. They had figured out that there was enough time after firing their first shot to quick look through their spotting scope and see where the bullet struck the dirt somewhere around their target. Make a sight adjustment and their next shot was on the 6 x 6 foot target paper. Couple more shots to zero up and they're off an running. No, they won't shoot scores as well as the best do, but I've seen them place in the top half of all the scores fired. And they've shot much better than some folks who've been doing it for years.

Helped a guy build his first centerfire rifle some years ago. It was a Palma rifle made for 800 to 1000 yard competition. Showed him how to load his first ammo with my tools and he put together 50 rounds with new cases. Went to a 100-yard range where he layed down slung up in prone then fired 5 shots to get a good zero with his aperture sights. Then told him how to calculate his "shooting boresight" by first running Sierra Bullets' software and using the same muzzle velocity as my rifle got with the same barrel length and load. After seeing how much the bullet dropped at 100 yards, he then calculated how much his rear sight moved impact at 800 yards per click based on the rifle's 35.5 inch sight radius. Next, he adjusted the rear sight down to move bullet impact at 100 yards down about two inches for bullet drop then another 1.6 inches for the front sight height above bore axis.

He calculated bullet drop at 800 yards for the atmospheric conditions at the range then adjusted the rear sight up for his calculated 800 yard zero. Estimated a slight correction for wind then fired his first shot since his first 5 getting a zero at 100 yards. It struck about 4 inches off from where he called the shot. Firing 15 shots at 800, 900 and 1000 yards, about 70% of them were in the 20 inch 10-ring, 25% in the 30" 9 ring and the remaining 5% in the 44" 8 ring.

And just like I stated, you state here that they didn't start off shooting at long range.

 

[Bart B]

And just like I stated, you state here that they didn't start off shooting at long range.

I've seen folks start out at 800 yards in their first Palma match. Having never shot any rifle other than a rimfire .22 at short range, they've layed down on the 800 yard line and busted their first centerfire round in their brand new rifle with brand new handloads. These don't include the guy I helped with his rifle and ammo.

I was referring to centerfire rifles. I didn't think rimfire stuff at short range should be included. If you think it should, that's fine. My point is, it doesn't take centerfire experience starting at short range to do reasonably well at long range; if one starts off doing all the right stuff.

 

[WildRose]

I've seen folks start out at 800 yards in their first Palma match. Having never shot any rifle other than a rimfire .22 at short range, they've layed down on the 800 yard line and busted their first centerfire round in their brand new rifle with brand new handloads. These don't include the guy I helped with his rifle and ammo.

I was referring to centerfire rifles. I didn't think rimfire stuff at short range should be included. If you think it should, that's fine. My point is, it doesn't take centerfire experience starting at short range to do reasonably well at long range; if one starts off doing all the right stuff.

And once again, you are talking about people with a great deal of experience at shorter ranges and lots of help and coaching before they moved out to LR.

The subject of this thread is not as lucky or experienced.

When you have a ballistics calculator, or another person doing all the work for you, it's all marksmanship from there.

 

[Bart B]

And once again, you are talking about people with a great deal of experience at shorter ranges and lots of help and coaching before they moved out to LR.

No, none had a great deal of experience at the shorter ranges. But yes, they got help and coaching but very little.

All this aside, 'tain't all that easy for a rookie to do well at his first long range experience. And some do better than others.