1 Rifle to rule them all

[Lefty7mmstw]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D-_uZrfFy6lw&ei=TemsUsenEoj9oATpzYEI&usg=AFQjCNGvw5NbpFWLslB-J3jGwoYJFXNfIA

For those of you whose ears perked up on the tin foil hat comment....simply sub tin foil for paper.... I did it for one of the guys where I work once... he wore the hat for the rest of the day.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Flip, if the gas gunners are at 600+ yards, it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will get hit. "Herded", yes. 55gr pills out a 16" barrel only goes so far.... Even the lightest armor will defeat 55gr FMJ. Most gas gunners do not have ANY experience shooting that kind of range and the ballistics of the bullet are not in their favor.

Absolutely. A 55 grain pill at 600 yards has about as much kinetic energy as a a fly taking a crap on your chocolate chip cookie

I imagine at 600, the pill is extremely subsonic and probably doing endo's.

Never discount the M191's for armor piercing....or maybe armor tinfoil....

 

[SidecarFlip]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TpzYEI&usg=AFQjCNGvw5NbpFWLslB-J3jGwoYJFXNfIA

For those of you whose ears perked up on the tin foil hat comment....simply sub tin foil for paper.... I did it for one of the guys where I work once... he wore the hat for the rest of the day.

Glad I'm not Jewish, but my wife is.......

 

[justgoto]

My tinfoil hat is on the coatrack.

No. your hat flew out the window along with your argument.

 

[weird1]

If it was only 1 and I own it now it would be my Remington 541-S, I think I can avoid engagement, and it will feed me very quietly while offering more rounds per pound while out and about.

 

[Jcub]

I find the argument about the AR-15 needing to be cleaned frequently to efficiently operate unfounded.


I cleaned my weapon 2x over the course of 6 months in Afghanistan. For real.

I must not have shot it very often you say? 2-6 firefights every single day. For real.

I have seen what a .223 will do to a human that doesn't posses a plate carrier. Yes it's not as devastating as a larger caliber, but it does effectively kill.


I know what assuming does, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyways and say that the majority of you have never been in a firefight. For those of you who haven't, believe me, it's nothing like you could ever imagine, and 95% of the time you were ambushed. From some of your comments I have deduced that you believe you will be set up waiting for your target, that sounds like you're being a 1 man army that happens to have good enough intel on the time and location of the enemy you're going to be shooting at. Didn't know a 1 man army had a combat intelligence department. 1 man with a weapon and a desire to survive WILL.

I posed a simple question, if you had to reach for 1 rifle, which 1? I didn't pose a detailed scenario. If you can't play along then don't. But don't presume to tell me what that scenario would look like because no one does.

No offense was taken and none was meant to be given, just respectfully replying to responses. Have a great day Gentleman!

 

[SidecarFlip]

I find the argument about the AR-15 needing to be cleaned frequently to efficiently operate unfounded.

News to me. I have a friend with a Rock River that put approximately 60 rounds downrange (Federal LC factory loads) and it started jamming. I ran my finger inside the action and my finger looked like I wiped it on a greasy dirty rag. It was mis-cycling because it was loaded with crap.


I cleaned my weapon 2x over the course of 6 months in Afghanistan. For real.

I'd hate to see what the tube looked like but then an AR isn't what I consider to be a longer range rifle so a dirty tube means little.

I must not have shot it very often you say? 2-6 firefights every single day. For real.

I have seen what a .223 will do to a human that doesn't posses a plate carrier. Yes it's not as devastating as a larger caliber, but it does effectively kill.

...at close range. A pellet rifle will kill at close range.


I know what assuming does, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyways and say that the majority of you have never been in a firefight. For those of you who haven't, believe me, it's nothing like you could ever imagine, and 95% of the time you were ambushed. From some of your comments I have deduced that you believe you will be set up waiting for your target, that sounds like you're being a 1 man army that happens to have good enough intel on the time and location of the enemy you're going to be shooting at. Didn't know a 1 man army had a combat intelligence department. 1 man with a weapon and a desire to survive WILL.

No, no firefights for many years but Vietnamn was different and thats another story that I'd prefer not to discuss.

I posed a simple question, if you had to reach for 1 rifle, which 1? I didn't pose a detailed scenario. If you can't play along then don't. But don't presume to tell me what that scenario would look like because no one does.

Never did. I like to 'play along'. However, my experience with the Rock River predicates my answers.

No offense was taken and none was meant to be given, just respectfully replying to responses. Have a great day Gentleman!

Everyday is a great day so long as you are not taking a dirt nap.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Jcub, first, thanks for your service.

I'm not one of them, but a lot of our members have been in fire fights and similar situations.

Next, in your scenario you state generally, that anarchy breaks out in our country. I live in Montana in a somewhat rural setting. The vast majority of the population of Montana are armed and many are well armed and have no reason or motivation to become anarchists or do what happened, say in LA or New Orleans. So the one gun anarchy scenario is difficult to picture here. But, playing along, if anarchy did break out in the rest of the country, I vision it happening in the more urban areas and possibly spilling out with looters and such straying out to the rural areas.

Now, you are more experienced with guerrilla fighters vs anarchists and you were a foreigner in a foreign country in Afghanistan which is a much different secnerio. I am a Montanan in Montana and any anarchists that I might encounter would likely be strays form urban areas and would have a very short life expectancy in this part of the country. Hence my choice of weapon, a bolt gun in 223. Very effective on humans and game. The only reason I picked a 223 vs say a 300 WSM is logistics. A 308 would have been another good choice. Large amounts of 223 ammo are much cheaper and easier to deal with than larger cartridges. If I were a shop owner in LA, or otherwise an urban dweller, I would choose an AR, AK or SKS type of weapon.

The most likely form or scenario of unrest to possibly happen in this country would result from an over reaching government imposing more restrictions and attempting to disarm the citizenry. The sheriffs in Utah wrote a letter to the president on that subject. Not exactly an anarchy scenario.

So although fun to play along, nation wide anarchy means differnet things in different areas, and is not likely to happen. The one gun scenario will never happen. But if it did, I'll take a 223 bolt action.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Very well put Mark.

Same scenario here. The only undesireable element would be urban dwellers coming to the sticks for criminal intent and believe me, they stand out like a banana on an apple tree so to speak.

We have had a number of smash and grab breakin's over the past year or so and they have all been with the occupants not at home and all the perps have been urban castoff's and interestingly, all have been collared.

One occupant was home and the perp found out she was armed and a good shot. He came in the home and got drilled. No issue there except maybe new carpeting, it's a pita to get dried blood out of carpeting.......

I grew up in an urban enviroment and I'd never go back to living where my neighbor was a scant 20 feet from my sidewall. Too close for me.

 

[Jcub]

Jcub, first, thanks for your service.

I'm not one of them, but a lot of our members have been in fire fights and similar situations.

Next, in your scenario you state generally, that anarchy breaks out in our country. I live in Montana in a somewhat rural setting. The vast majority of the population of Montana are armed and many are well armed and have no reason or motivation to become anarchists or do what happened, say in LA or New Orleans. So the one gun anarchy scenario is difficult to picture here. But, playing along, if anarchy did break out in the rest of the country, I vision it happening in the more urban areas and possibly spilling out with looters and such straying out to the rural areas.

Now, you are more experienced with guerrilla fighters vs anarchists and you were a foreigner in a foreign country in Afghanistan which is a much different secnerio. I am a Montanan in Montana and any anarchists that I might encounter would likely be strays form urban areas and would have a very short life expectancy in this part of the country. Hence my choice of weapon, a bolt gun in 223. Very effective on humans and game. The only reason I picked a 223 vs say a 300 WSM is logistics. A 308 would have been another good choice. Large amounts of 223 ammo are much cheaper and easier to deal with than larger cartridges. If I were a shop owner in LA, or otherwise an urban dweller, I would choose an AR, AK or SKS type of weapon.

The most likely form or scenario of unrest to possibly happen in this country would result from an over reaching government imposing more restrictions and attempting to disarm the citizenry. The sheriffs in Utah wrote a letter to the president on that subject. Not exactly an anarchy scenario.

So although fun to play along, nation wide anarchy means differnet things in different areas, and is not likely to happen. The one gun scenario will never happen. But if it did, I'll take a 223 bolt action.

Actually you are absolutely correct. You made many great points, and put it much more eloquently than myself. As with most things in life, like ballistics, is all dependent on the variables. Something I should have taken into consideration.

 

[Jcub]

Everyday is a great day so long as you are not taking a dirt nap.

This is as true a statement as any.

I cannot begin to imagine what Vietnam must have been like. I am not naive and truly believe some of this great nations most true hero's and hard men came from that war. The worst part about all of that is when you returned the country s#$% on you and your brothers.

Vietnam was a true infantryman's war and when I went through basic training, Ranger school and Recon Surveillance and Leadership Course, 95% of my training was taken from the recon teams and infantryman who built that training through horrific trial and error.

No words could ever display my gratitude for your service.

 

[westcliffe01]

So, according to your story, you expected to see combat daily, yet actually only cleaned your weapon twice in 6 months ??? Don't think I want you backing me up anytime soon...

The AR has a well documented history of being an unreliable weapon if not maintained. The Galil, which I carried, was more forgiving, yet I still cleaned it every opportunity I got and it was always clean going into combat (other than external dust from convoy activity).

The weapon I carried in combat was also a 223 and I still maintain it was woefully unsuited for that role.

Now the world knows a thing or 2 regarding ammunition expenditure of the US armed forces. According to this report US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed it amounts to 250k rounds per kill. Most militaries in the world don't have that kind of money to waste. I know that I never depleted my 250 rounds in any firefight, because there were typically not more than 8 or 10 of the enemy involved. If I couldn't see the enemy, I was not shooting.

 

[weird1]

I enjoy reading this kind of thread. I am always intrigued with the stand and fight plan, mostly because I don't own anything that requires it. I shudder to think of stockpiling the amount of ammo that would require for the long haul. Which raises the question do you think you have enough ammo for your 1 rifle to rule them all scenario?


I have no trouble starting a new thread and apologize in advance if I should have.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Very interesting battle rifle Westcliffe. I see it's loosely based on the AK gas blowback design with some improvements including a tubular folding stock and the standard hard chrome action and comes in various derivatives.

Looks to be a recognizable weapon like the AK.

Having had 3 AK's myself at one time, I can say none were all that accurate but ate any ammunition you fed them.

After Sandy Hook and the sharp increase in prices of 'assualt type rifles' I sold all 3 at a nice profit and all the ammunition as well.