Federal does it again 😅

Pilsner said:

One podcast quoted a Federal employee saying that it needed 12 or more resizing runs to get it properly resized after firing. and it isn't annealable. Thus 3, 4, maybe 5 reloadings if you're lucky before the necks are toast.

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That's better than ADG BRASS.

I think Dillon has/had those, but I think the frames and dies are going to have to beefed up. I can see the advantages of hydraulics over levers in generating the psi levels actually required to resize economically. Hmmm - glad I'm not looking for a business to go in to!

Pilsner said:

One podcast quoted a Federal employee saying that it needed 12 or more resizing runs to get it properly resized after firing. and it isn't annealable. Thus 3, 4, maybe 5 reloadings if you're lucky before the necks are toast.

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You mean this one?

martinakl said:

I don't think most of us fit in the target demographic.

But, there are lot of:

"What short barreled cartridge/file with magnum like velocity is best for elk at 1,000 yards" type questions on here.

"I want to run suppressed but I want a short overall rifle."

"Would a 18" or 20" 28 Nosler work?"

To which we get the most ridiculous answers of:

"might as well just shoot a 7mm-08 because at 20" you'll get the same velocity as a 20" 28 Nosler. You will lose so much velocity that it's not even worth it…"

There is a market for this. Factory rifle, factory ammo guys. Website says there's over 80 rifles available in this cartridge at launch. I image ammo will be expensive, like a Weatherby cartridge.

I imagine steel cases will be harder and/or impossible to reload. Maybe there's a setting on our AMP annealers? LOL

TBD what ES and SD is on the factory ammo. I'm betting on erratic to downright awful.

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Frankly, who is paying for the tooling? This is a dumpster fire! Is high pressure steel case some kind of "green energy " scheme?

No way I would be first in line to even buy a reamer. Seekins redid their entire line of rifles for this.

And the Seekins PH3 is touting complete case support. No more bulge and higher pressure. They discontinued the rest of their line.
Pressure is the next frontier. Like it or not it makes sense if performance with less weight and less powder is appealing. I don't know why it wouldn't be aside from the reloading angle.
I'm confident the ingenuity of the folks invested in that market will arrive at a solution for now.These aren't the typical steel cases we have come to know.
Time will tell but the freak out over what we don't know is predictable. Folks with a small fortune in equipment dedicated to reloading brass cases probably fear this the most. An AMP Annealer in the trash? Custom dies that will be useless in a handful of years? I would freak out too if I had 10's of 1000's of dollars in supplies and equipment gathered over the years becoming obsolete. I have simply 1000's of dollars invested.
It's an uphill battle for public acceptance but this is how it's going to turn eventually. Reloading may become even more of a niche hobby than it is now. As a group we have already been shown how expendable we are. If the last two shortages didn't drive that home we are asleep at the wheel.

Elk Hunter 338 said:

Just watched a video on this ...Not sure on make of firearm, but after each shot .. literally couldn't open the bolt without leaving shooting position and you could see and hear the primary extraction working over time !! I'm out

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Agreed Dallas.

I see tons said about the case strength, new material etc. Assuming it's all as amazing as they say, there are still major issues to consider.

Rifle bolt lugs still see the full 80k and more. The tougher case will expand less so less grab on the chamber walls means more force on the bolt lugs in addition to the extra pressure. Sounds like the steel case might not be springing back enough for decent extraction.

Barrel still sees the full peak 80k pressure at ~6" of bullet travel. Better be extremely careful how quickly barrels taper down especially on a carbon wrapped where they get thin quick.

Barrels and throats will wear very fast.

There is lots to consider as a whole package. They dealt with the same issues as smokeless powder moved pressures up from the black powder loads. The old trapdoor isn't going to take a full power smokeless 45-70 load. I'm glad they didn't stop developing higher pressures because the black powder was plenty to kill a Buffalo. That isn't too far off many comments that we don't need to move forward because "my 7mm Mag will do anything that will"! This is likely the next step forward with the other steel and hybrid cases that have come out.

A standard bolt face long action set for long/heavy bullets at regular long rifle length, 5 rounds down in a regular mag box with standard or even short barrel lengths. All that while delivering Ultra mag velocities is an appealing package! It's going take a minute to sort it all out though.

Dirtrax said:

And the Seekins PH3 is touting complete case support. No more bulge and higher pressure. They discontinued the rest of their line.
Pressure is the next frontier. Like it or not it makes sense if performance with less weight and less powder is appealing. I don't know why it wouldn't be aside from the reloading angle.
I'm confident the ingenuity of the folks invested in that market will arrive at a solution for now.These aren't the typical steel cases we have come to know.
Time will tell but the freak out over what we don't know is predictable. Folks with a small fortune in equipment dedicated to reloading brass cases probably fear this the most. An AMP Annealer in the trash? Custom dies that will be useless in a handful of years? I would freak out too if I had 10's of 1000's of dollars in supplies and equipment gathered over the years becoming obsolete. I have simply 1000's of dollars invested.
It's an uphill battle for public acceptance but this is how it's going to turn eventually. Reloading may become even more of a niche hobby than it is now. As a group we have already been shown how expendable we are. If the last two shortages didn't drive that home we are asleep at the wheel.

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I don't see this ever making conventional brass cartridges obsolete in any way. I am excited about it, but I must say I agree to disagree with you about fear. People might not be a fan of it or say it's hype or just not for them, but I can't really see anybody afraid of this thing being successful.

After all, the .22 rimfire is still the most sold and chambered cartridge on earth by a mile…very very old tech, a heeled bullet, unremarkable performance…but it works dang it and it's never going to leave. People still shoot blackpowder haha. We have e-bikes but bicycles still exist…Brass cases are extremely proven and I don't see them ever leaving, but more options and more performance to be realized is always welcome. I see this class of cartridges as perhaps complimenting the existing lineup of well established guns and ammo, not at all replacing them, ever.

PS, I looked back over our sales records at the gun store I work at…we're mainly just hunting rifles and shotguns. - and in the last 14 months the .30-06 Springfield is STILL the number one chambering we sell for new production centerfire rifles. None of the new kids have dethroned the king, at least not around here.

What's the bolt thrust on lugs for a rifle with a standard bolt at 80k, what about a mag bolt face at 66k? I hit fisb in the head with sticks for a living so not the best choice to do the math.... I'm guessing the actions are fine as they are.

The 300 varminter rolled up high pressure with standard brass and three or four firings. I bet if we stuck pressure sensors on a whole bunch of popular wildcats we'd find at least loads in the mid 70s. I've no doubt the steel cases are going to have growing pains, but high pressure is the logical evolution for progress.

It may not be the "Future" but it's certainly the direction of it.

Factory ammo still will always be factory ammo and sheep will always need shearing.
6,7,800 yards rubber and sd start hitting the fan...say nothing about a$% shots.

The current state is as follows: 6mm "Form" says kills better, vs Big Red (PRC) vs shorty suppressed crowd all near the same boiling point is great for our little corner of the world..!!!

Have any one of the testers shot to see how consistent the ammo is over a chronograph? It's always going to be hard to tune to factory ammo but the prc line has shown with conventional brass they can get good enough.

Let's be honest… what do you think the percentage is of hunters that reload… and how many of those will ever burn out a barrel in their lifetime?

K.E.C. Darkside said:

THIS.

Will be a Wildcatters dream.
Hopefully the brass will be available without buying ammo.

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What brass? Steel….unsizeable steel!

5RWill said:

PRC is going nowhere with hornady backing it now if it was a federal cartridge I'd be suspect

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Federal, Winchester and Remington are why we have so much wildcating….their cartridge specs and reamer designs are a joke. Aka 300 WSM shooting 165gr bullets at 3400fps or some crap. All that overstuffed in a 2.83" oal.

The 300 WSM would be great at 3.2" action length with 190-212gr bullets, but those don't fit and really need/want a 9 twist.

My point….marketing was great so fast you can just point and shoot!

6.8 western wasn't bad….270 WSM, but fix the throat. Make it weaker, put bigger bullets in it…did fix the twist, so they have that.

Calvin45 said:

Well jeepers I hope that's not true. But it makes sense that it would be. I thought to myself resizing steel sure would involve a lot more force than brass.

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Yea, you can bet that will be some high end presses and dies for this. I'm just not sure what the end game is here. Just play with quick load. What does 70-80ksi really get you?

While they were bringing along some good ideas, why not electronic ignition and the 5lb creepy trigger that went with that. Maybe some 7.1 mm bullets??

FireFlyFishing said:

You mean this one?

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no but the SHoot2Hunt guys referenced it in that podcast.

nksmfamjp said:

What brass? Steel….unsizeable steel!


Federal, Winchester and Remington are why we have so much wildcating….their cartridge specs and reamer designs are a joke. Aka 300 WSM shooting 165gr bullets at 3400fps or some crap. All that overstuffed in a 2.83" oal.

The 300 WSM would be great at 3.2" action length with 190-212gr bullets, but those don't fit and really need/want a 9 twist.

My point….marketing was great so fast you can just point and shoot!

6.8 western wasn't bad….270 WSM, but fix the throat. Make it weaker, put bigger bullets in it…did fix the twist, so they have that.



Yea, you can bet that will be some high end presses and dies for this. I'm just not sure what the end game is here. Just play with quick load. What does 70-80ksi really get you?

While they were bringing along some good ideas, why not electronic ignition and the 5lb creepy trigger that went with that. Maybe some 7.1 mm bullets??

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No need to buy it man…

Go shoot a .308 and be happy

Indeed most new ideas have issues and more often than not they don't succeed…but I'm sure glad people keep having them and testing them out, failures and successes alike.