308 enough for brown/polar bear?

Calvin45 said:

Not particularly impressed by waking up a sleeping bear (I know I know technically they don't "hibernate") with dogs and fire and then shooting it as it stumbles out of its den. Not surprised the sks killed it. But everything about that "hunt" seemed awful to me. Just my opinion.

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Yep, I think Ivan was playing with fire in more ways than one, I also think that Bear was coming out to finish everything out there off, sleepy or not. A guy has to believe his bovine anal seepage to keep doing that kind of hunting, it's not hard to see where that whole Aarvark Rodeo could go south in a hillbilly's heartbeat. Cheers

Okay Here's My 2 cents on, THE Best, Rifle, Pistol or, Shotgun, FOR,.. a "Charging",.. Grizz , Polar or, Brown Bear,..
I'd Go with an, "African, Double Rifle" in, .375 H& H, . 404 Jefferey, .458 win. or, .416 Rigby with Thick Jacketed SP Bullets, as they Worked, VERY "Well" on Charging,. Lions, Tigers, Cape Buffalo and Elephants ! ( You Still gotta, shoot "Straight" !! ) Those Big Bore, Double Tap's, "Worked" ( Usually ! ).
One of, my Customers ( years ago ) Shot, a Polar Bear with, 3 Shots out of, a .300 Weatherby MkV ( 180 gr. ) and said that, His Guide Put One, in Him, too from, a Win .375 H&H ( He WAS,. a "Toughie" ! ) First Shot, was in Upper Chest as bear was standing and "Looking" around at, 80 Yards and it got, the Bear to,"Charge". He said that, He was shaking so Hard when the Bear finally Piled Up, Dead at, 20 Feet that, he couldn't light, a Cigarette for, quite a while ! The .270 win, .280 rem, .308 win. or, .30-06 with, Heavy weight Partitions or, Bonded bullets, would probably,..
"Get, the job Done", in the RIGHT "Hands" shooting for, the Mouth / Nose, area ! ( They just, wouldn't Be, My "First, Choice" ! )
I've always Felt, pretty Comfy with, My .338 Win Mag., Mk V Bolt action and 210 gr. Nosler Partitions, in Grizz country !

A young black guy pulled a pistol in a little hole in the wall nightclub near where I live a while back. Six or seven deputies responded and had the man at gunpoint for a while but he wouldn't drop the gun. When he raised it to shoot those deputies opened up with 9mm and 45acp. The guy arrived at the hospital with 26 holes in him! And lived! Some things just don't go down easy whether you have the right gun or not. But it did get him out of his fighting mood and change his priorities a bit.
Now I personally would have rather had a shotgun and buckshot in that situation. I've shot a lot of stuff with 00 buck and if it's within 25 yards and hit squarely it dies very quickly. 000 buck is very good too. It penetrates better and at longer ranges than 00. I've killed a lot with 00 and 000 at three times that range but that's likely not a range you would be shooting a charging bear.

What I don't want in a bear charge is just 2 shots if I have the option for more. A charging bear might just cause marksmanship to suffer a bit. I'd also like to be able to get shots off in quick succession and hope for a good CNS hit.

The old Time, African Professional Hunters could NOT afford to, Miss with those, Double Rifles and Most had, testicles, the size of,. Coconuts !
They ALWAYS tried to,. MAKE, the First Shot,.."Count" !
Getting 3 Shots Off, with a Bolt action rifle at, a Charging Bear at, CLOSE Range,.. ???
I'll Take, the Double Rifle,.. EVERY Time ( personally )

In that light, a good friend of mine went on a brown bear hunt this year. The folks he went with required a 416 cal minimum which we all thought was steep. Now my friend actually was an outfitter in Africa and told them he has a Kreighoff double in 500 Gibbs I think. It's a beautiful rifle. Ive handled it many times. He's killed lion, elephant and Cape Buffalo with that gun plus many other species. They would not accept that for his hunt because it only allowed two shots. He ended up borrowing a 416 Remington bolt action He killed his bear. 9'7". With one shot.

Idaho Lefty said:

The old Time, African Professional Hunters could NOT afford to, Miss with those, Double Rifles and Most had, testicles, the size of,. Coconuts !
They ALWAYS tried to,. MAKE, the First Shot,.."Count" !
Getting 3 Shots Off, with a Bolt action rifle at, a Charging Bear at, CLOSE Range,.. ???
I'll Take, the Double Rifle,.. EVERY Time ( personally )

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To the contrary there are probably quite a few of those people with big testicles laying trampled in shallow graves or were the star attendant at their own closed casket funeral that wished they had had more than two shots. It can go either way.

I think both of you have good points... Cheers https://www.africahunting.com/threads/dangerous-game-double-rifle-side-by-side-vs-over-under.77840/

Turpentine21 said:

To the contrary there are probably quite a few of those people with big testicles laying trampled in shallow graves or were the star attendant at their own closed casket funeral that wished they had had more than two shots. It can go either way.

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The week after we left camp in TZ, my PH's girlfriend - who he was guiding - blew a shot on a close lion. The lion closed so fast it was on him in a flash. She had to shoot the cat off of him without taking him with it! OOPS....Fortuntely - she did!

Well I can tell you African PHs and most full time guides get it right a whole lot more often than they get it wrong. There are a lot of dude hunters that owe their lives to the excellent skills of these people. The experience and expertise is so far above the average person on this or any other forum, it is hard to believe. Those of you making sport of the ones unlucky enough to get it wrong are really aholes with a far over developed sense of your own importance and knowledge. Take a step back and give your head a shake, your impotence is glaringly obvious

I'm

Dean2 said:

Well I can tell you African PHs and most full time guides get it right a whole lot more often than they get it wrong. There are a lot of dude hunters that owe their lives to the excellent skills of these people. The experience and expertise is so far above the average person on this or any other forum, it is hard to believe. Those of you making sport of the ones unlucky enough to get it wrong are really aholes with a far over developed sense of your own importance and knowledge. Take a step back and give your head a shake, your impotence is glaringly obvious

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If you are referring to me say so. If so I can tell you Im not self important, impotent, or an ahole as you put it.

BigDon said:

The week after we left camp in TZ, my PH's girlfriend - who he was guiding - blew a shot on a close lion. The lion closed so fast it was on him in a flash. She had to shoot the cat off of him without taking him with it! OOPS....Fortuntely - she did!

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He was a very lucky man. I'm glad she could perform under pressure.
A friend of mine that spent a lot of time in Africa made a bad shot on a lion years ago which led to some very tense moments during tracking. Luckily everyone came out unscathed. He ended up being able to get another shot into the cat later as it crouched in a thicket watching its back trail.

BigDon said:

The week after we left camp in TZ, my PH's girlfriend - who he was guiding - blew a shot on a close lion. The lion closed so fast it was on him in a flash. She had to shoot the cat off of him without taking him with it! OOPS....Fortuntely - she did!

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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend recently who is a law enforcement officer. We were discussing concealed carry and use of deadly force when I brought up the subject of someone being armed with a knife. Basically, you try to subdue him and get the knife you are gonna get cut. When are you justified in using deadly force in this situation? He said that they go by the 21 foot rule. If a man charges you with a knife and he is within 21 feet you have slim to no chance of drawing your gun and effectively defending yourself before he is on top of you. Apply that line of thinking to an animal that's much faster and stronger than a man and I'm sure that distance grows. How much so I have no way of knowing. The point being a person has very little time to react.

Turpentine21 said:

He said that they go by the 21 foot rule. If a man charges you with a knife and he is within 21 feet you have slim to no chance of drawing your gun and effectively defending yourself before he is on top of you

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Well documented and will stand up in court if you defend yourself with a firearm against a knife wielding attacker!

A bit off topic…..but, I've always been a bit off! memtb

memtb said:

Well documented and will stand up in court if you defend yourself with a firearm against a knife wielding attacker!

A bit off topic…..but, I've always been a bit off! memtb

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Didn't mean to go off topic. Just trying to emphasize the lack of reaction time someone has when charged by a man and that the time can be even less when charged by an animal. You don't get much time to react.