So you are going to shoot a 300# mulie at 600 yds with a 75 gr bullet?. Can get a 75 eld m at 3700 with a 26" barrel in various 22 chamberings. I shoot suppressed with a 20" barrel and it kicks like nothing. You could shoot a 338 bullet at 3100fps too and I still wouldn't shoot it.. 75 eld m bucks wind and kills dead with little meat damage.
Best All Around Caliber for Whitetail and Mule Deer?
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Lenny Foffa
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Out to about 300 yards, 270 Win with a 130 Grn. bullet started at 3020 fps; Longer range to about 800 yds ,if required, 270 Weatherby Mag . with either the 130 grn bullet at approx. 3070 fps, or the 150 grn ABLR at approx 3000 fps. I'm happy with the results!!!
Personally? Of course I would, that's why I posted. I've shot that rifle out to 1200 in 20 mph wind and am extremely confident with that bullet and gun. I'd imagine most of the people shooting bigger calibers would be a lot more precise with the smaller gun at distance and can perform better at distance. But we're in a forum aimed at long range shooting so I'd bet most here are proficient long range shooters. I have a 7 mag, 30-06, 6.5 PRC, and 6cm to also choose from but now after my 5th 1 shot kill whitetail from 60-480 yards I trust my 22-250 for deer. Hell I'd shoot a bull elk with it too but my 6.5 is a bit little lighter of a rifle. I have also taken two cow elk with the 75 eld m as well.
memtb
Well-Known Member
memtb
Been shooting a plain Ole 270 for over 40 years.
Plenty good on Antelope, Whitetail, Mule Deer and Elk.
But you need to dial in the distances you'll be hunting.
The .270 is not a long range round although I've shot Antelope beyond 400 yards. You REALLY need to know bullet drop for shots like that.
And I don't make a regular habit of shooting that far as there are too many variables.
Plenty good on Antelope, Whitetail, Mule Deer and Elk.
But you need to dial in the distances you'll be hunting.
The .270 is not a long range round although I've shot Antelope beyond 400 yards. You REALLY need to know bullet drop for shots like that.
And I don't make a regular habit of shooting that far as there are too many variables.
Well, as long as the shot angle, wind call, rangefinder number etc are all spot on and your rest is ideal, knock em out!
But when a setup like this fails, and in time it will, don't ask yourself those nagging questions like "what if I had".
Instead, do the rare and unexpected. Share the experience and caution others that varmint calibers are not exactly ideal in the field on big game.
How many times do we have to see this?
Why in the hell would you not use a more suitable setup?
I'm asking that to anybody. Not just you
But when a setup like this fails, and in time it will, don't ask yourself those nagging questions like "what if I had".
Instead, do the rare and unexpected. Share the experience and caution others that varmint calibers are not exactly ideal in the field on big game.
How many times do we have to see this?
Why in the hell would you not use a more suitable setup?
I'm asking that to anybody. Not just you
memtb
Well-Known Member
Thank You Phil…..well said! memtb
wilkup
Well-Known Member
To what end though…?
If you can't kill em with a small bullet you'll struggle with a big one. Hasn't failed yet with 7 big game animals. Hell i shoot 100+ pigs a year with a 50 grain out of a 223 and occasionally you'll get one over 300lbs. I shoot enough animals each year with different guns and each one kills em dead when you put it in the boiler room.
Also I forgot but I shot my stag in New Zealand with an 87 grain Berger VLD out of a 6cm at 327 yards. I'd post the vid but it won't let me. First shot he was dead but put another in him because he was still standing. Fell right over where he was hit and was dead on the ground within 30 seconds of the first shot.
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wilkup
Well-Known Member
All those questions could be asked of any cartridge choice as ranges increase.
Sure, the 7mm increases range capability over the 22 calibers but at a certain point the next person will say, "Why use that puny 7mm when the 338 doubles the weight and maintains similar velocities?" These arguments could go on forever…
At the end of the day - know your rifle, understand its capability and realize that not everyone has the same skill set.
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I'm not a proponent of using small calibers for big game at long range. However... any small caliber bullet moving at supersonic speeds will do as much or more damage as a broadhead from a bow at close range given the same projectile path through the quarry. To me, the bigger question is, how reliably can the hunter hit at distance? There's a point where very small differences in range result in a very large vertical dispersion. Laser rangefinders have made a huge difference, along with increased inherent accuracy in modern rifles and ammunition and more consistently reliable bullet performance across a wide range of velocities. Also, "varmint calibers" is a bit of an ambiguous term; is an 88 gr .223 controlled expansion bullet designed for big game moving at 2,200 ft/sec at a specific distance a varmint cartridge? Is it any less effective than an 85 gr .243 bullet designed for big game at 300 yards from a .243 Winchester? (No.)
We have learned a lot about the capabilities of specific bullet designs moving at or above a specific velocity against big game in the past decade or two, proven a lot, and disproven a lot. We aren't Robert Ruark buying a .220 Swift with 40 gr varmint bullets, hopping on a plane to East Africa, and then trying to shoot a warthog up the backside... and then being disappointed in the lack of bullet performance instead of recognizing that we (he) chose the wrong bullet and the wrong shooting opportunity from profound and prideful ignorance and thus writing off the idea of using such a cartridge/caliber on big game. A lot of advancement in this area is because people challenged the conventional wisdom, applied some rational thinking, and helped to advance the technology. Ruark was a great story-teller, not that great of a shot with a rifle (from his own telling), and based most of his conclusions about rifles, cartridges, etc., from his African hunting experiences with Harry Selby as his guide and mentor... and Selby was also a man of his time with significant experience with the rifles, cartridges, and bullets of his time, not our time. Selby (and Ruark) were not fans of Roy Weatherby and his ideas around effective big game cartridges because they flew in the face of what was then the conventional wisdom. It's the old Jack O'Connor versus Elmer Keith view of what ballistic characteristics were best for hunting.
Unlike many other forum members, I believe that kinetic energy is an important factor when it comes to bullet performance and commensurate quick kills. This forum is not supposed to focus on the ethics of long range shooting, yet I believe (and I'm sure the vast majority of people on the board would agree) that at some distance with a particular hunter and rifle/cartridge the issue of ethics comes into play... but there is widespread disagreement on that distance.
Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry" persona had a great saying: "A man's got to know his limitations." Each hunter must know his personal limitations, in terms of shooting ability and gear capabilities, set a threshold based upon those limitations, and adhere to that threshold. If there's a desire to extend the threshold, then each hunter should honestly assess their shooting capabilities and their gear capabilities and make the proper adjustments. I personally believe that larger caliber, more powerful cartridges provide an increased margin for shooter error... but the margin is not that significant and the drawbacks of larger caliber, more powerful cartridges may create more error than they protect against.
My personal fear is a lack penetration due to a bullet landing a few inches either way….like in the shoulder, a really good place to start with for a DRT episode.
Or… not having the correct construction to begin with.
I'm learning, and observing, and with these high BC frangibles, staying on the heaviest end for mass. Its taking me longer than it should, to gain confidence, but on deer I'm playing it safe with 135-190gr Hybrids. And they aren't starting out slow, unless maybe Kirby Allen chimes in….
Or… not having the correct construction to begin with.
I'm learning, and observing, and with these high BC frangibles, staying on the heaviest end for mass. Its taking me longer than it should, to gain confidence, but on deer I'm playing it safe with 135-190gr Hybrids. And they aren't starting out slow, unless maybe Kirby Allen chimes in….
memtb
Well-Known Member
ObiJohn, I enjoyed your post, and am in full agreement with the majority of it.
I would suggest that, those hyper velocity small caliber cartridges, when used at close range, cause far more tissue damage, " LOST MEAT" than will a much larger caliber cartridge (unless a very frangible bullet is used) at a more mundane speed.
I suspect that the majority or the hyper velocity, small bore advocates will not pass up a trophy animal at close range when the only shot offered is a shoulder or a quartering away angle in heavy brush or timber.
They would also be cheated the opportunity to expose their incredible expertise with firearms! memtb
I would suggest that, those hyper velocity small caliber cartridges, when used at close range, cause far more tissue damage, " LOST MEAT" than will a much larger caliber cartridge (unless a very frangible bullet is used) at a more mundane speed.
I suspect that the majority or the hyper velocity, small bore advocates will not pass up a trophy animal at close range when the only shot offered is a shoulder or a quartering away angle in heavy brush or timber.
They would also be cheated the opportunity to expose their incredible expertise with firearms! memtb
Use what you're confident with and that's what matters. If you choose to use something bigger then more power to you and that's great. I have tested enough to have complete confidence in my smaller bullets.
My buck I shot yesterday was at 60 yards broadside slightly quartering to me. I was also curious about the bullet performance at short range and whether it would explode on impact. In my case it performed flawlessly. My shot hit his heart and managed to go up a bit and clip lungs on the way out the ribs on the other side. He ran 30 yards and piled up. No damage was done to my quarters and the deer is hanging in my shop now to age. I shot my bull last year with a 140 eld m in my prc—I am a firm believer in the eld m bullets from 22 cal to 30 cal as I have experience with them on game.
