About 200-300
Creedmoor hot barrels we don't let the coo between 40 round increments in class
Never hunt with a clean rifle specially long range
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Creedmoor hot barrels we don't let the coo between 40 round increments in class
Yes out of 5 schools 2 barely show at 100 yards the other 3 are between 1 to 2 inches
dennisinaz
Well-Known Member
I was with a small group talking to Bryan Litz at SHOT one year. He said they the rely on the doppler radar to tell them when to clean. Shooting many barrels etc. He said that at 100 rounds you could see a change on the Radar. He also said that you could NOT clean it adequately with chemicals alone.
Just repeating what he told us.
Just repeating what he told us.
I respect Brian immensely however, there are new products out that do work. Have been using this one for a couple of years. Speedy showed this to me when I was picking up a rifle he built for me. Yes, it does work as the bore scope does not lie.
Believe me it took several times to convince me using my own bore scope that this really does work cleaning without using the brush save the chamber ring (it does get most of it without the brush) as he shows.
Spent too many hours to count with Speedy in his shop, shooting and cleaning rifles. He is just about the most demanding person about cleaning down to the bare metal I have been around.
One more comment about shooting clean bore first shot. For hunting, with my rifles that Speedy built with Kreiger tubes the POI is not really much different that after a fouling shot so I just run a patch or two to get the oil out of the bore and shoot. Now with a factory production barrel this is not a good Idea as those are a completely different story.
At the 3:00 minute mark he is using a brush?
Yes--my bad for not mentioning this. I do use a nylon brush to apply cleaner to the bore. Just dribble some on the brush while turning it in my bore guide opening then down and back dribble on a little more and down and back. I have used the patches as well, but this works better for me. I do use only patches to apply the accelerator though. A short blast of CRC brake cleaner to clean the brush and it goes in rod holder. If I apply another round of the chemical, I only use the patches for both and the Dewey with the brush stays in the holder.
When I first ordered this the maker told me that yes, he loves Speedy, but the brush is not really necessary. I have tried it both ways and it seems to work best on my rifles to apply the Cleaner soaked on the nylon brush and patches for the rest except if you are working on the carbon ring. To make full disclosure my bores never get very dirty. Being a 1K BR guy has made me always clean down to the metal during a match between relays.
That being said and yes, it is overkill this saves me a lot of scrubbing which I hate to do on my sporters. My hunting rifles are built the same as my competition rifles just smaller scale, also repeaters using the same dies cut from the reamers used to chamber with.I am curious to see how this works on a factory tube as they are quite a bit rougher. Am always a fan of anything that cut down on the brush strokes!
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
I find it very interesting that even the world class experts disagree on when and how to clean barrels. I used to religiously follow the guys on Benchrest.com and most of those guys were serious about cleaning down to bare metal but then they mostly shot 100 and 200 yard matches.
I clean down to bare metal quite often but then I live in a humid environment and have had rust pitting show up under uncleaned fouling so there you have it.
If I were to go somewhere I'd be shooting long range matches, training or hunting I'd be more likely to not clean until I was ready to go home, or every 40 or so rounds, and then save the "bare metal finishing touches" until I got home, after I got most of the fouling removed and a liberal dose of Hoppe's in the barrel to soak for a day or so.
Note that the 6.5 Creedmoor is NOT a cartridge that fouls a barrel very much with copper or powder fouling (in my experience) like many of the magnum et. al. cartridges. The Creed reminds me of 308 and 223 type fouling which tends to be minimal and easy to clean including very little copper fouling.
I know that the 6.5 Creedmoor gets a lot of disrespect here on this forum but I have found it to be an inherently accurate and quite moderate, yet far reaching cartridge. I didn't think I'd ever find a cartridge that would replace my love of the 308 and 223 but the 6.5 Creedmoor has handily revised my 'set in my ways' type of thinking.
This may very well be why some of James's cleaning advice doesn't make sense to some of us here but it's hard to argue with him when his unparalleled success in shooting and training others to shoot long range speaks strongly for itself.
I was thrilled to finally discover that his school is only about 2.5 hours from my house. Somehow I always thought it was "out west" as most of the long range hunting and shooting schools tend to be out there. You can bet he'll be hearing from me and a couple of my local friends soon.
I clean down to bare metal quite often but then I live in a humid environment and have had rust pitting show up under uncleaned fouling so there you have it.
If I were to go somewhere I'd be shooting long range matches, training or hunting I'd be more likely to not clean until I was ready to go home, or every 40 or so rounds, and then save the "bare metal finishing touches" until I got home, after I got most of the fouling removed and a liberal dose of Hoppe's in the barrel to soak for a day or so.
Note that the 6.5 Creedmoor is NOT a cartridge that fouls a barrel very much with copper or powder fouling (in my experience) like many of the magnum et. al. cartridges. The Creed reminds me of 308 and 223 type fouling which tends to be minimal and easy to clean including very little copper fouling.
I know that the 6.5 Creedmoor gets a lot of disrespect here on this forum but I have found it to be an inherently accurate and quite moderate, yet far reaching cartridge. I didn't think I'd ever find a cartridge that would replace my love of the 308 and 223 but the 6.5 Creedmoor has handily revised my 'set in my ways' type of thinking.
This may very well be why some of James's cleaning advice doesn't make sense to some of us here but it's hard to argue with him when his unparalleled success in shooting and training others to shoot long range speaks strongly for itself.
I was thrilled to finally discover that his school is only about 2.5 hours from my house. Somehow I always thought it was "out west" as most of the long range hunting and shooting schools tend to be out there. You can bet he'll be hearing from me and a couple of my local friends soon.
bavedoggs
New Member
Wow, no kiddingI had my 7PRC sighted dead on at 400yds with the Berger 180 Hybrid bullets. I took it home and cleaned it to bare steel, which took a combo of BT Eliminator, bronze brushing and some Flitz. Went back to the range with the same ammo and fired an initial shot. Impact was 1" left but 6" high.
Fouling matters!!
dennisinaz
Well-Known Member
I think Litz's point was that things show up on the doppler radar that don't show up on 100 yards groups. BC change as the bullets start doing wonky things. Speedy uses some good chemistry but I doubt he gets to clean many dirty guns. Every bench rest shooter I know or shot with cleaned VERY frequently
When I was shooting 1000 yd BR, it was common to see guys cleaning between every relay. The bores never really get dirty that way.
When I was shooting 1000 yd BR, it was common to see guys cleaning between every relay. The bores never really get dirty that way.
Oh yes Speedy does get some very dirty guns in to work on however you make a good point about some of his clientele. He still builds quite a few sporters and now the big one-mile rifles. Yes, I was one of the guys that between every relay got mine back to Clean.
This is the last one Speedy built for me a 375 EnABELR we were mounting the scope.
Lenny Foffa
Well-Known Member
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Just my personal preference , but the last range session before the hunt is usually a day or two before I leave for the hunt. That last range session is perhaps 10 or 12 rounds out of the plastic box that may have 30 to 35 rounds in it. From that box I take the 10 rounds that will come with me on the hunt. The rifle does not get cleaned after that last range session.
SSG Graybush
Well-Known Member
Right, and tape over tip. 1 price over top, and once around the barrel to hold in place. Here's a video on how this doesn't affect accuracy. 700 yards hits with no noticeable poi shift. Keeps debris and water out. And in the unfortunate occasion you stick your barrel in the dirt, it will keep it from becoming a clogged mess. And have to be cleaned. Not that I'd know, lol. Slips happen. Protect that crown.
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