7Rum Slayer
Well-Known Member
Curious I am.
Molten Lead & Jacket Separation
- Thread starter DMM9623
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quigley257
Well-Known Member
Bullets stopped melting in flight after Hornady created the "Heat Shield Tip"... 
Please give me a day or so to recover from a 33 hour transit from overseas to Colorado (I wrote the initial post from an airport) . I have the photos but need a day or so to collect ballistics and other data. Thanks for your patience.
Ain't nobody shootin nothin till you get back!
6.5x300 WBY
Well-Known Member
Especially during flight. If not you can't prove anything
Is this what makes the world famous Creedmore so dangerous?? 
memtb
Well-Known Member
DMM9623,
I'm not gonna offer any opinion…..yet!
But I will say, Welcome from North Central Wyoming! memtb
I'm not gonna offer any opinion…..yet!
But I will say, Welcome from North Central Wyoming! memtb
Last edited:
jamie eaton
Well-Known Member
Welcome from the mitten state . Speaking of molten anyone had the Reese's chocolate lava BIG CUP ! Delicious !
david g ranes
Well-Known Member
I had a post a couple years ago showing a 85.5 grain Berger out of a 22 creedmoor that shed the jacket about 50 yards from the barrel and the lead was recovered in the bed of a ford pickup that was setting off the dead end road we were shooting on it looked like a banana but was still intact definitely not melted. David
Here's some background info followed by photos. I've been recovering WWII battlefield relics for museums since 1979. I'm currently working a battlefield (1942) that was heavily jungled with tall & mature hardwood trees and thick undergrowth. The fighting was very intense with the U.S. using the .30 cal M1903 Springfield, the M1 Garand and M1919 machine gun. In five trips to the site I've recovered nearly 300 bullets that I've segregated by weight, length, core and shape. I'm providing ballistics and design data on just the the .30 cal. M2 bullet due to it's the only one I've so far positively identified.
I've never ran across such a high density of bullets and further, such a high percentage with ricochet damage. This damage ranges from the nose being bent just a few degrees, up to 90 degrees and beyond. Many have multiple strikes causing flattening or odd shapes. A majority of them are damaged yet retained the entire core, some retained partial core and others are empty. I can only theorize that this was caused by varying degrees of throat & barrel temperature due to varying rates of fire between the three weapons and the length of time the cartridge remained in the chamber.
Looking at the photos will raise other questions. Example, note the two perfectly shaped but hollow jackets. Even the period tracer rounds contained a partial lead core.
I ran across this 2021 thread while researching the physics of ricochet and it seems to explain the mystery of the molten and bare lead cor
My comments and theories are within the images. Apologies for any errors in the data. I'm not a ballistics guy and welcome any corrections. I also welcome questions or requests for more images.
I've never ran across such a high density of bullets and further, such a high percentage with ricochet damage. This damage ranges from the nose being bent just a few degrees, up to 90 degrees and beyond. Many have multiple strikes causing flattening or odd shapes. A majority of them are damaged yet retained the entire core, some retained partial core and others are empty. I can only theorize that this was caused by varying degrees of throat & barrel temperature due to varying rates of fire between the three weapons and the length of time the cartridge remained in the chamber.
Looking at the photos will raise other questions. Example, note the two perfectly shaped but hollow jackets. Even the period tracer rounds contained a partial lead core.
I ran across this 2021 thread while researching the physics of ricochet and it seems to explain the mystery of the molten and bare lead cor
My comments and theories are within the images. Apologies for any errors in the data. I'm not a ballistics guy and welcome any corrections. I also welcome questions or requests for more images.
Attachments
Two more related Images:
Attachments
quigley257
Well-Known Member
There is and always will be fire associated with war and battle. Any/many of the melted cores probably occurred after they were fired.
epoletna
Well-Known Member
Those relics look just like bullets I have recovered from target backstops for years. Some whole, some in pieces, many bent and deformed. And many missing all or part of their lead core.
I have never concluded the core was missing because it was melted. Just trying to consider alternate scenarios:
One possibility is that the copper jacket was deformed sufficiently that the core fell out. Not melted, just fell out. If it had been melted, I would have expected to find small patches of lead that had been melted and re-hardened. I would expect those patches of lead to incorporate bits of sand and earth from where they hit. I don't ever remember having found anything like that.
Now it is possible the lead core would have melted where it touched the jacket, so there was never a true "puddle" of lead. But why would it separate? If the lead and copper exited the muzzle at the same velocity (as they would have), why would they not stay together? A thought experiment: fill a glass with water and drop it. Does the water move away from the glass? No, they stay together because they started together and are moving at the same speed.
I am just not seeing any evidence there was any melting involved. I could be convinced, but have not yet been.
I have never concluded the core was missing because it was melted. Just trying to consider alternate scenarios:
One possibility is that the copper jacket was deformed sufficiently that the core fell out. Not melted, just fell out. If it had been melted, I would have expected to find small patches of lead that had been melted and re-hardened. I would expect those patches of lead to incorporate bits of sand and earth from where they hit. I don't ever remember having found anything like that.
Now it is possible the lead core would have melted where it touched the jacket, so there was never a true "puddle" of lead. But why would it separate? If the lead and copper exited the muzzle at the same velocity (as they would have), why would they not stay together? A thought experiment: fill a glass with water and drop it. Does the water move away from the glass? No, they stay together because they started together and are moving at the same speed.
I am just not seeing any evidence there was any melting involved. I could be convinced, but have not yet been.
