308 enough for brown/polar bear?

Arken7mm said:

Thank you.

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If you can find a load with the 270 grain Partition, I would strongly consider that as an alternate to the monos. Monos have a tendency to hold together a little too well for my liking in a stopping round. Swift A Frame (my personal favourite but can be hard to find) and Woodleigh are also top choices for that work.

My other suggestion is if you are getting custom loads, have them knock 300 FPS off max. The reduced recoil makes second shot recovery easier and has zero effect on penetration. I am a fan of the 45-70, and it kills every bit as good or better at 1500 fps as it does at 2000 and the second shot recovery is WAY faster.

Arken7mm said:

For brown bear and polar bear defense is it smart to load alternate rounds? The first round a 270gr TTSX and the second the solid for a follow up shot?

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Nope!

That 270 TTSX will likely shoot through any bear crossways, and give it "one hellofa" belly ache if shot from the front! "

Two different style and weight of bullets will very likely not print to the same point of impact @ 100 yards……you may, "just may" want to use it for something other than shooting bears at point blank range!

It's really quite simple, don't over complicate it……one bullet, one load, and one zero, for all of your use with that cartridge!

While a bull elk isn't considered dangerous, it has thick hide, dense muscle, and heavy bone……same as a bear. I use a similar cartridge for all of my hunting, a 270 grain TTSX will have little problem giving full penetration on a bear! memtb

Dean2 said:

If you can find a load with the 270 grain Partition, I would strongly consider that as an alternate to the monos. Monos have a tendency to hold together a little too well for my liking in a stopping round. Swift A Frame (my personal favourite but can be hard to find) and Woodleigh are also top choices for that work.

My other suggestion is if you are getting custom loads, have them knock 300 FPS off max. The reduced recoil make second shot recovery easier. I am a fan of the 45-70, and it kills every bit as good or better at 1500 fps as it does at 2000 and the second shot recovery is WAY faster.

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And Dean, if I may…..I see it a bit different concerning the Partition.

While a good bullet, and upon initial impact will give a much larger wound channel than will a mono…..it also has it's shortcomings.

At a very close range, high velocity impact……the Partition is subject to have the front jacket peel all the way back to the partition and fold tightly against the remaining bullet. Meaning it now only weighs about 65% of it's original weight…..meaning a smaller wound channel and less penetration due to the weight loss. I've seen it happen!

The Partitions were my "go to" bullet, before Barnes brout out their mono's!

The mono, on the other hand, sheds little weight, maintains a decent wound channel throughout it much deeper penetration than a bullet that's lost a great deal of it's weight!

That deeper penetration offers an opportunity for the bullet to contact/destroy other vital tissue (nerves, bone, lungs/heart/liver, ect.). Admittedly, some of that does not immediately incapacitate…..but will kill!

JMO, memtb

memtb said:

And Dean, if I may…..I see it a bit different concerning the Partition.

While a good bullet, and upon initial impact will give a much larger wound channel than will a mono…..it also has it's shortcomings.

At a very close range, high velocity impact……the Partition is subject to have the front jacket peel all the way back to the partition and fold tightly against the remaining bullet. Meaning it now only weighs about 65% of it's original weight…..meaning a smaller wound channel and less penetration due to the weight loss. I've seen it happen!

The Partitions were my "go to" bullet, before Barnes brout out their mono's!

The mono, on the other hand, sheds little weight, maintains a decent wound channel throughout it much deeper penetration than a bullet that's lost a great deal of it's weight!

JMO, memtb

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You have a valid point, and it is why I prefer the Swift A Frame. While it has the same H construction design, it is tougher than the Partition at higher Velocity, and the front lead is bonded to the copper jacket, which is also thicker than the partition. The A Frame does not lose its front half.

That said, I have shot bear with the 270 Grain TSX at short range and also used the Partition and A Frame, at short range. All bullets exited the bear in every case and none ever needed a second shot, but the wound channel was much larger with the partition or the A frames. The effect of the impact of the Partitions and the A Frames also seemed more pronounced in terms of quick knock down.

To each his own, any of the three will get the job done, I was just passing on what shooting multiple bears with each revealed over time.

The 270 gr TSX is a great projectile as is the A frame. Both, in 300 gr weight, are recommended for Cape buffalo which are a much tougher animal needing deeper penetration.

The 270 gr will work great for hunting as well as defensive use on big bears. A little flatter trajectory and faster expansion than the 300 due to higher velocity. Should still go through the vitals of any bear out there. The A frame is as good and has its advantages - if you can find them. I went with the 300gr TSX for my 375 H&H planning to hunt buffalo as well as plains game in Africa. The A frames weren't an option as I couldn't find any here in Canada.

There are a few places in Canada that carry A Frame. This is where I usually buy mine.

Canada

Accurate Bullet Company - British Columbia
Bashaw Sports - Alberta
George's Shooting Shack - Ontario
Sore Shoulder Shooting Supplies - Alberta
Rayner Shine Gunworks - Lancer, SASK

Have dealt with Bashaw, Accurate and Rayner Shine. All good companies. The others I have not dealt with.

While these are expensive, I have found that Hornady Interlocks hit almost exactly the same place, so much cheaper to practice with, and the Interlocks kill good too.

Dean2 said:

There are a few places in Canada that carry A Frame. This is where I usually buy mine.

Swift - Brands | X-Reload

x-reload.com

Canada

Accurate Bullet Company - British Columbia
Bashaw Sports - Alberta
George's Shooting Shack - Ontario
Sore Shoulder Shooting Supplies - Alberta
Rayner Shine Gunworks - Lancer, SASK

Have dealt with Bashaw, Accurate and Rayner Shine. All good companies. The others I have not dealt with.

While these are expensive, I have found that Hornady Interlocks hit almost exactly the same place, so much cheaper to practice with, and the Interlocks kill good too.

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I love the Interlocks in my old H&H. But, when pushed hard from my AI on a close range shot….. they lost quite a bit of weight, and had a great, very wide mushroom …… both of which hindered deep penetration.

At reasonable velocity impact…….they're a great bullet! I've got a bunch of them, I probably should be using some of them up! memtb

memtb said:

I love the Interlocks in my old H&H. But, when pushed hard from my AI on a close range shot….. they lost quite a bit of weight, and had a great, very wide mushroom …… both of which hindered deep penetration.

At reasonable velocity impact…….they're a great bullet! I've got a bunch of them, I probably should be using some of them up! memtb

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I never could make the 270 interlocks shoot in my .375 jaguar. Not sure what the reason for it, but they printed a solid 5" group at 100.

marksman1941 said:

I never could make the 270 interlocks shoot in my .375 jaguar. Not sure what the reason for it, but they printed a solid 5" group at 100.

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Have heard a few guys say this but in hundreds of rifles, never had one that would not shoot Interlocks. Many shot other bullets a little better, but they all did no worse than 1.5 inches, and lots shot them under 1/2 inch. My current lh ruger 375 will do three cloverleafed darn near every time, which is what it does with Barnes 270 TSX as well.

Hard to figure what causes the outlier results but I know for sure it happens.

Dean2 said:

Have heard a few guys say this but in hundreds of rifles, never had one that would not shoot Interlocks. Many shot other bullets a little better, but they all did no worse than 1.5 inches, and lots shot them under 1/2 inch. My current lh ruger 375 will do three cloverleafed darn near every time, which is what it does with Barnes 270 TSX as well.

Hard to figure what causes the outlier results but I know for sure it happens.

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I don't understand why, but the 270gr Speer are nearly one hole and the 270gr interlock are 5" (no joke). Same load, same seating depth. I played with load and depth on the interlock and never got them to come in.

to the poor souls using .223,s on those big bears, i would like buy life insurance on them with me being the beneficiary.

eastbank said:

to the poor souls using .223,s on those big bears, i would like buy life insurance on them with me being the beneficiary.

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There are MANY MANY things to die from up north. Drowning, cold, disease, accidents of all sorts, heart attack from over exertion, it is almost never a predator.

It is why I always get a kick out of these bear threads. You have a far bigger chance of dying from the flight to camp than you ever would from being attacked by a bear. I do not ever recall a hunter being killed on a guided hunt from a bear attack in Alaska or the Territories. Doesn't stop all the Dudes that go North to hunt from peeing themslves and worrying endlessly about something that has never happened to tens of thousands of their predecessors. I would buy life insurance for the flight and health issues way before I did for bear attacks.

I concur.

It's visiting time in my part of alaksa, salmon over and the earlier hunting seasons wrapped. Ended up in a diner with a newly retired guide yesterday and the bear fear phenomenon topic came up. While he doesn't go afield he's still in camp and had some funny stories. This year a group of guys of some derivative of .mil types showed up for a black tail bow hunt. Said they brought an armament of rifles that were all just shy of howitzers, literally several per guy. Guess the most senior had a fairly significant phobia of an attack even though he hadn't had a previous issue. For 8 days he packed around an assortment of fire power, and never even saw a bear...

Whatever it is, it drives a tremendous amount of interest. Girls in the village had an equal fascination with various farm animals. Guess we are enamored by big powerful critters that aren't common to us.


We had a weather window last week and the wife talked my into a trip that involved planes, boats and packrafts. At some point we floated down some salmon system like two big sushi rolls in a sushi conveyor restaurant for some dumbfounded bears. Not my preference but they left us be, as did even the sows with Cubs I bumped into this summer. My honest opinion, I'm more likely to die of a nuke caused by the abysmal policy of the last 30 years of neocon failed policy than a big bear attack. The bears at least are fairly predictable....

Pick up a rifle, practice with it. On the 375 you can't buy ammo that won't work "good enough" for defense. Then go focus on not being an idiot in the woods and you'll be fine.


On the polar bears I'm not familiar, last trip to the higher artic my goal was to at least see one. Heck we looked so much for one, had it been warmer I was ready to don bacon grease and some honey and run around naked with a fox pro to try and get one to come in... haven't felt the need to stick around where they are enough to need self defense.

There's paranoia, and then there is BEAR-anoia