308 enough for brown/polar bear?

Arken7mm said:
I was thinking about a 308 semi-auto rifle that can hold at least 20+ rounds like the AK M77, Scar 17 or HK G3/PTR style rifles where you can fire off more rounds quicker than a bolt action or Marlin lever gun.
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The skinnies poach elephants with AK47's. Every one of the rifles you listed ONLY shoot the lower powered service rifle ammo. You can't shoot a box of quality 308 rem through them. They pop the primers and jam the gun. I had the SCAR 20 what a heavy ***. I sold it two months later at a big loss. A real full 55,000+ psi AR10 is what you want

If I was really worried about bear attacks simply packing a big pistol is all you need. But on our Alaskan bear hunts I always took my 458 win mag or my 458 Barnes American. Always one shot kills even the 9'6" brown. My hand loaded 510 gr RSP hit it in the chest walk towards us and blew out its butt cheek. DRT. Some of the locals just use their .270's for everything.


 
budlight…….I like the way you think! There is such a thing as having "too much" equipment on a hunt/hike. There comes a time when it's more of a handicap rather than an asset! 😉 memtb
 
I'm no bear expert but the guides I had in Alaska griz country carried 12GA with slugs. I carried a Marlin Century Limited III 18" 45-70. 350gr Hornady's I handloaded. Which was a compromise between a caribou hunting round and bear defense. But it was accurate and I shot it well. I wanted one fast shooter in my camp. S&W 4" Model 29 with 300gr hardcast Federal Castcores on my belt.
 
Arken7mm said:
One of my concerns about a Marlin lever style gun is it's not semi-auto. I would have to operate the lever after each shot and I'm not confident about my motor skills during a high stress situation when a dangerous animal charges within a close radius and catches me off guard. Walking through tall grass, or tight trails with heavy thick brush on each side and you don't see the animal and it pounces.
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You have to be confident in whatever you use. I favored a lever gun because it's a big bore. If you choose a semi auto that's fine. But as far as arguing over which is easier to use that would depend on your training. I've been well trained with semi autos and I still chose a levergun. Working a lever is not a hard skill during a stress situation. A disadvantage with a levergun is the capacity. The disadvantage of the semi is weight, bulk, length, and cartridge. Both will take time to clear if a malfunction happens. But you have to be confident with either system you carry. And it's YOUR life so YOU get to decide.
 
xsn10s said:
I'm no bear expert but the guides I had in Alaska griz country carried 12GA with slugs. I carried a Marlin Century Limited III 18" 45-70. 350gr Hornady's I handloaded. Which was a compromise between a caribou hunting round and bear defense. But it was accurate and I shot it well. I wanted one fast shooter in my camp. S&W 4" Model 29 with 300gr hardcast Federal Castcores on my belt.
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Those had to be fishing guides. I have never even heard of a hunting guide who advocates for a 12ga! Shotguns have thier place bunnies, birds, and burglars.
 
budlight said:
The skinnies poach elephants with AK47's. Every one of the rifles you listed ONLY shoot the lower powered service rifle ammo. You can't shoot a box of quality 308 rem through them. They pop the primers and jam the gun. I had the SCAR 20 what a heavy ***. I sold it two months later at a big loss. A real full 55,000+ psi AR10 is what you want

If I was really worried about bear attacks simply packing a big pistol is all you need. But on our Alaskan bear hunts I always took my 458 win mag or my 458 Barnes American. Always one shot kills even the 9'6" brown. My hand loaded 510 gr RSP hit it in the chest walk towards us and blew out its butt cheek. DRT. Some of the locals just use their .270's for everything.
Click to expand...
The Buffalobore 150gr Barnes TTSX will not work in the semi-auto's like the AK Zastava M77 ??

Buffalobore claims on their website for this ammo: "This ammunition is designed for use in ALL 308 Win. chambered rifles that are in normal operating condition."

308 WIN. SUPERCHARGED LEAD-FREE Ammo Rifle & Gun Ammunition

308 WIN. SUPERCHARGED LEAD-FREE Ammo Field Proven rifle and gun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for rifles and guns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.
www.buffalobore.com
 
Rick Richard said:
I know of and been with several elk guides who carry 12 ga with buckshot and slugs for bear defense in Grizzly country.
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I am a bear expert and have shot them with pretty much every kind of round you can think of from 243 to 460 BEE and everything in between, including shotguns.

The first time one of those guides shoots even a Black Bear with Buckshot they will find out just how useless that load is. Outside of the Brenneke slug, most shotgun slugs are far from optimal for use on any thick bodied animal like bear, especially if they have a heavy layer of fall fat. I would readily take a 308 over ANY shotgun, though my preferred bear gun for close in work is a 45-70, followed by the 444 and then a 458 Win or 375 Ruger.

You want to practice on a moving target and see if you can get three shots into a face on charge from 30 yards. That practice will make a hell of a lot bigger difference than the calibre of the gun you are holding.
 
Rick Richard said:
I know of and been with several elk guides who carry 12 ga with buckshot and slugs for bear defense in Grizzly country.
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Grizzly are fairly new in elk country. They will learn better after a few get chewed up. Any rifle is better than a 12ga. Buckshot is practically useless, only a hard cast slug like the brennekke black magic is tough enough to penetrate enough on bears. I wouldnt trust a shotgun at ranges over a few feet.

I often wonder how many of these guys have ever shot a bear with a scattergun? Fishing guides carry shotguns as security blankets. The guys who kill **** for a living all carry rifles.
 
Thebear_78 said:
Grizzly are fairly new in elk country. They will learn better after a few get chewed up. Any rifle is better than a 12ga. Buckshot is practically useless, only a hard cast slug like the brennekke black magic is tough enough to penetrate enough on bears. I wouldnt trust a shotgun at ranges over a few feet.

I often wonder how many of these guys have ever shot a bear with a scattergun? Fishing guides carry shotguns as security blankets. The guys who kill **** for a living all carry rifles.
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Uhh, I am a first hand witness what one can do. The buckshot is to have a "pepper" effect in hopes of deterring the charge. Slugs are for the final….act and works.
 
Rick Richard said:
Uhh, I am a first hand witness what one can do. The buckshot is to have a "pepper" effect in hopes of deterring the charge. Slugs are for the final….act and works.
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"Pepper" effect? That is the dumbest thing I have heard, let's wound this bear intentionally that will calm it down.

I've seen shotguns used on bears too, woefully unimpressed with their effect. One smaller griz sow took three 00 buck and two slugs. Was very much alive when finally killed with 300 and 375 rifle fire. Buckshot didn't even make it into the body cavity.

If you witnessed a successful bear defense with a shotgun it was despite using a shotgun not because of it.
 
Thebear_78 said:
"Pepper" effect? That is the dumbest thing I have heard, let's wound this bear intentionally that will calm it down.

I've seen shotguns used on bears too, woefully unimpressed with their effect. One smaller griz sow took three 00 buck and two slugs. Was very much alive when finally killed with 300 and 375 rifle fire. Buckshot didn't even make it into the body cavity.

If you witnessed a successful bear defense with a shotgun it was despite using a shotgun not because of it.
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Yep, but it worked…on two different occasions.
 
Rick Richard said:
Yep, but it worked…on two different occasions.
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I have no problems at all killing bears but wounding a bear as a detterent is not just stupid it is also cruel. On top of the pain inflicted long term to the animal there is a very good chance it will do harm to the next human it encounters, especially if the wounds have compromised its ability to eat. Kill the bear or scare it off with pepper spray or noise, wounding it is just asinine.
 

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