Barbour Creek student take antelope @ 1507 yards

daniel_k_malloy said:
All this bragging and defending about a 1500 yard shot with a 6.5CM is just ridiculous. That's not something too be proud of. If BarbourCreek is allowing students to take shots like this, I'll be dammed if they aren't missing shots like this and/or mearly wounding animals. We're not allowed to discuss ethics? Fine. Morals are a different story, and these guys' are lacking in the department.
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It seems the experience level on this forum has significantly degraded over the year.
Once your at the level the OP is at your managing the variable so well you don't miss on game, you recognize a shot that is doable, you manage the details, you have a competent spotter give you input, that goat was as dead at 1500 as it would be at 400. The percentage of wounded game is significantly higher by people at close range who haven't cared enough about the game to put serious effort into shooting.
The people I know who can shoot at this elite level while hunting got there because they are holding themselves to a higher standard and then take action on that and with that come the potential for more range which is just a tool in a hunters toolbox making them better at what the end goal is and that is a clean kill!!
 
HandgunHTR said:
Your hyperbole aside, you are completely ignoring the fact that the bullet did properly function. The 147 ELD-M will expand/upset at 1200fps as much as a Barnes bullet will at 1800 fps. Nobody has a problem with that level of expansion, do they?

Just because the manufacturer says something doesn't mean it is gospel. Hornady also doesn't recommend you use the ELD-M on game. Sierra doesn't recommend you use the TMK on game. However, thousands of dead animals are a pretty compelling argument that they work just fine.

I have used a 220 grain 30 caliber bullet to kill a bunch of hogs and deer using a 300 BO at subsonic speeds from distances ranging from 15-110 yards. They worked just fine.

Rather than jump on the forum and try to say something isn't right with little to no factual evidence to base your opinion, I suggest you get out and test your assumptions. You may actually learn something.
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They had zero evidence that these bullets would function correctly at those impact velocities. They clearly didn't care. They decided to experiment on a living animal. That is udder disrespect for a living creature. I would never consider a person willing to experiment on a living animal as a hunter. We aren't allowed to discuss ethics, but a true hunter is ethical.
 
Wy Will said:
They had zero evidence that these bullets would function correctly at those impact velocities. They clearly didn't care. They decided to experiment on a living animal. That is udder disrespect for a living creature. I would never consider a person willing to experiment on a living animal as a hunter. We aren't allowed to discuss ethics, but a true hunter is ethical.
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How do you know they didn't have evidence or knowledge of bullet function?
You seriously don't know how many of these manufactures know how their bullets work don't you, they send them out and testers shoot them into game, it's the ONLY metric that is accurate.
The point of hunting is to kill an animal, will I experiment, heck ya I will! I don't want to shoot mediocre crap just because some marketing team says it what to do, I'll take my information from the inside of a dead animal, zero cares about marketing!!
How do you think we know the 215 Berger is a top hunting bullet, Broz and I kill two truck loads of goats in Wyoming from 300-1300+ and we took apart and cut every one on site, then worked out on elk size game doing the same thing!!
 
bigngreen said:
How do you know they didn't have evidence or knowledge of bullet function?
You seriously don't know how many of these manufactures know how their bullets work don't you, they send them out and testers shoot them into game, it's the ONLY metric that is accurate.
The point of hunting is to kill an animal, will I experiment, heck ya I will! I don't want to shoot mediocre crap just because some marketing team says it what to do, I'll take my information from the inside of a dead animal, zero cares about marketing!!
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Barbour literally admits that he told them not to shoot past 1100 due to the bullet velocities. He chose not to listen. I imagine the shooter does not have more experience than Barbour. That alone is evidence enough that they were unsure that the bullet would function at that distance.

The ELDM is not marketed as a hunting bullet, but its lethality has been tested extensively. This is why nobody has an issue with the bullet selection. Everyone has an issue with the speed that the bullet was traveling at impact.

Your comparison of the 215 Berger is pointless. You shot a much larger bullet out of a magnum cartridge at a shorter distance.
 
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Wy Will said:
Barbour literally admits that he told them not to shoot past 1100 due to the bullet velocities. He chose not to listen. I imagine the shooter does not have more experience than Barbour. That alone is evidence enough that they were unsure that the bullet would function at that distance.

The ELDM is not marketed as a hunting bullet, but its lethality has been tested extensively. This is why nobody has an issue with the bullet selection. Everyone has an issue with the speed that the bullet was traveling at impact.
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Obviously the bullet got there with adequate velocity to very cleanly killed an antelope, not much more can be asked of that but a clean kill, complete success!!
 
Wy Will said:
They had zero evidence that these bullets would function correctly at those impact velocities. They clearly didn't care. They decided to experiment on a living animal. That is udder disrespect for a living creature. I would never consider a person willing to experiment on a living animal as a hunter. We aren't allowed to discuss ethics, but a true hunter is ethical.
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I have seen videos of amazing ELR shots like this for twenty years. I have a theory as two why these match bullets are so effective at such extreme distances seemingly in contradiction with close range simulated long range ballistics gel testing. The first and most easily proven is that rotational velocity doesn't decay as fast foreword velocity.(bullet still spinning really fast at impact)
Second bullets in theory should maintain the same angle of attack at impact they have at launch, in other words they should impact slightly nose up thus immediately forcing the bullet to yaw and to tip and tumble this should force immediate expansion, I have seen video's of 30 cal. match bullets that impacted at sub-sonic speeds on elk, and only pieces of the jacket and core could be found demonstrating complete energy dump and aggressive bullet expansion.
Maybe BignGreen can chime in?
as far as energy is concerned
 
As far as energy is concerned I have dropped a coyote at over 100 yards with one shot out of a 22 subsonic, this should have had about 78ft-lbs yet was DRT. I do have a minimum impact energy and velocity in mind for big game, but it should be different for everybody.
 
Doghunter23 said:
As far as energy is concerned I have dropped a coyote at over 100 yards with one shot out of a 22 subsonic, this should have had about 78ft-lbs yet was DRT. I do have a minimum impact energy and velocity in mind for big game, but it should be different for everybody.
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Where was he hit?I've killed 1000 coyotes with pictures to prove it, and have killed many with a suppressed 22 all with subsonics.
 
daniel_k_malloy said:
All this bragging and defending about a 1500 yard shot with a 6.5CM is just ridiculous. That's not something too be proud of. If BarbourCreek is allowing students to take shots like this, I'll be dammed if they aren't missing shots like this and/or mearly wounding animals. We're not allowed to discuss ethics? Fine. Morals are a different story, and these guys' are lacking in the department.
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Really time to depart from this ridiculousness,it didn't happen any seasoned long distance shooter knows this, did he drop an antelope looks like it, was at at 4500+feet No.My guess is more like 507 yards.Barbour has an agenda,$$$$. Too many drank the Kool Aid,seasoned sniper here of an elite team,Metro Swat,countywide. I don't like Kool Aid. Nice antelope nevertheless. 👍
 
ohlongarmisle said:
Really time to depart from this ridiculousness,it didn't happen any seasoned long distance shooter knows this, did he drop an antelope looks like it, was at at 4500+feet No.My guess is more like 507 yards.Barbour has an agenda,$$$$. Too many drank the Kool Aid,seasoned sniper here of an elite team,Metro Swat,countywide. I don't like Kool Aid. Nice antelope nevertheless. 👍
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You know it's OK to have someone out shoot you, you don't need to get bent out of shape cause your not as elite as you think, maybe if someone out shoots you it's an opportunity to learn and increase your skills and not stagnate!!

As elite as you are you can easily confirm the distance by time of flight. Would have been a little over 2 seconds at 1507!!
 
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