Gel Test Data

59FLH said:

Steve, what were the gel results on the 867yd canyon shots?

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Those were shots on rocks. No gel. That was just shooting for wind deflection.

Was gonna post a ford Chevy analogy but this seems a little tense so I won't…but just know it would've been really funny.

RockyMtnMT said:

That is interesting too. I don't start drama; I react to it. Sometimes too much. I'll take blame for that. I think they don't want the bullet that made Broz famous to be seen in a negative light.

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I'm not quite sure that your test shows the Berger in a negative light. The thousands of animals that have died from it would think otherwise.

I for one would be embarrassed if I was truly in Len's living room.for the past few months it's been dumpster fire after dumpster fire. When I was growing up if I acted as I've seen several in this thread act my parents would beat me no matter if it was when I was a kid or now. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it before bullets get added to our list of things not to talk about such as ethics politics ect ect.

NorthRiverGuide said:

Not actually true you are thinking of the vld's where the target is thicker and the hunting thinner. You practice with one and hunt with the other. All the rest are hybrid design and have thin jackets. Brian just talked about this with the question about the OTM (open tipped match) and a juggernaut. They are both the same bullet military contracts requires it be labeled a OTM. He even said that the Berger hybrid target makes a great hunting bullet. Just because it's labeled for something other than hunting doesn't mean it won't perform well. I've used them hunting and have friends who built whole custom rifles for hunting around running the 215 gr berger hybrid target bullets. The Berger hybrid target has a thinner jacket then the Berger vld hunting.

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Not according to Berger. The hybrid 215 has the target jacket whiich is thicker jacket than the hunting jacket at least according to berger website. Not saying it wont work fine as well but it is the thicker jacket. They went to thicker jacket for target as people were spinning them apart with big magnums and very fast twist barrels and then went back to original thinner jacket for hunting line

Lou

waspocrew said:

I'm with Cody on this one - gel testing can give data, but not necessarily proving one projectile vs the other would work better on game.

For those worried about terminal performance of the 215 hybrid on game, Broz detailed a ton of kills on deer, elk, and antelope with the 215 hybrid a few years back. It's a great read.

Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

As you all know I am a huge fan of the 210 Berger VLD, and have been for years. The amount of elk and other game we have taken with this bullet is stunning, and have never tracked an animal. Last season my son "Young-Gun" wanted to test the 230 Hybrid OTM in his 300 win and we did. We really...

www.longrangehunting.com

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They have been tested on animals by the hundreds, there are threads already in place but there are more to come with in depth details

I'm here for the data. Can we stick to data? I use both of these manufacturers bullets where they fit into brackets that I assign.
The ignore button really works on some of these commenters. So does the report function.

Lou270 said:

Not according to Berger. The hybrid 215 has the target jacket whiich is thicker jacket than the hunting jacket at least according to berger website. Not saying it wont work fine as well but it is the thicker jacket. They went to thicker jacket for target as people were spinning them apart with big magnums and very fast twist barrels and then went back to original thinner jacket for hunting line

Lou

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The Vld hunter has a jacket thickness of .047 tapering down to .035". The Berger hybrid target has a uniform jacket thickness of .026".

Bob Wright said:

I'm here for the data. Can we stick to data? I use both of these manufacturers bullets where they fit into brackets that I assign.
The ignore button really works on some of these commenters. So does the report function.

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I concur

NorthRiverGuide said:

The Vld hunter has a jacket thickness of .047 tapering down to .035". The Berger hybrid target has a uniform jacket thickness of .026".

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I am going based on this which states the target line is thicker of which the hybrid target is part of:


It is possible they updated something as bullet people constantly tweak designs, but again according to berger they have 2 jackets a target and hunting and hunting is generally thinner.

Lou

Lou270 said:

I am going based on this which states the target line is thicker of which the hybrid target is part of:

History of the Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

The story of the Berger Hunting VLD is a story of discovery rather than design. The VLD bullet design was created by Ballistician Bill Davis during a project that also involved Dr. Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell of PPC fame. Bill’s goal was to produce a bullet design that performed better in...

bergerbullets.com

It is possible they updated something as bullet people constantly tweak designs, but again according to berger they have 2 jackets a target and hunting and hunting is generally thinner.

Lou

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They changed the vld in 2011 after issues with the jackets. I know the current thickness of the hybrid target is .026" because Petey308 cut one open and documented it. He's got some pretty good stuff. I've hunted with the 215 hybrid target and it performs extremely well especially at lower impact velocity. I'm not sure how low it will expand I've only gone down to just over 1600 fps hunting. Buddy hit a doe with one at just over 900 yards with a 300 prc and the exit hole was the size of a baseball. You are right Berger is constantly tweaking their stuff. Brian litz has a podcast now that's really good. Instead of putting out a new book every year. He goes chapter by chapter on the podcast covering the topic and any advancements or updates. Only downside is that the books, website, etc doesn't always get updated as fast as they change something etc. I know that the vld's are still one thicker and one thinner. The target hybrids though are thinner than the vld hunting.

NorthRiverGuide said:

Not actually true you are thinking of the vld's where the target is thicker and the hunting thinner...The Berger hybrid target has a thinner jacket then the Berger vld hunting.

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Right, but the hybrid ogive Elite Hunter and Classic Hybrid Hunters have even thinner jackets than the hybrid targets. It's stated on their website. Regardless, the Berger hybrids are reliable killers no matter the flavor.

ButterBean said:

I concur

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X2

ButterBean said:

They have been tested on animals by the hundreds, there are threads already in place but there are more to come with in depth details

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Not sure if you were referring to the 215 hybrid or the HH, but the 215 hybrid has scores of proven field results on game, which is what matters to me. The HH clearly kills well also as evidenced by plenty of threads. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while gel gives an idea on expansion and penetration (and the videos/pics are cool to watch), I don't think it 100% directly correlates to performance on game. I'd rather see field results (and that goes for any bullet).