Hammer bullets gel test.

[Rick Richard]

Respectfully Rick some of us do moderate on other forums, mostly it doesn't come to "policing". Moderating requires being present (we used to have them here) "policing" is showing up after the train left the track.

I do mean the respectfully part.

Carl

Yes, wrong choice of words on my part.

 

[Orange Dust]

Gday ucsdryder


Gel is a interesting one
Never used it myself as had no correlation to critters or should say it dosent show the full picture

But I like those super slow speed cameras
But is as touch out of my league so I'll stick with my iPhone

Member banned


Cheers

Corrected. Fordy is out of jail and unbanned!!!!!

 

[Bob Wright]

Yay! Now will Fordy come back? I hope so. So much respect for him and many others here that have enriched my knowledge on shooting.
Happy day today.

 

[Huntnpack]

He's back & better than ever.
Fordy 2.0.

 

[Bob Wright]

He's back & better than ever.
Fordy 2.0.

Awesome!

 

[Muddyboots]

I knew this would work...glad truth prevailed.

 

[fordy]

Gday nksmfamjp

Have you correlated this response with the FBI and every major bullet/ammo maker? Yes they shoot critters to validate, but their gel protocols allow them to predict animal performance.

I think the real value in hammers is they always,IME, deliver accuracy. Additionally, they always perform the same way…..which is quite effective. I'd prefer they keep their petals, but the ones that do often distort.

The only thing that surprises me is Hammers in almost every gel test turn and exit the gel after shedding petals. Usually 20" or so in, but is this going to steer oddly on a quartering shot and go out a hind quarter?

I'll confess straight up I hate gel & I've never had anything to do with it or the fbi or really don't know a lot on there full criteria only snippets on a little I've read

My hate
goes back when some one used it as a promotional tool & said in the article this is what it will do in critters

Well I was sucked in bought a heap of pills worked up loads & headed off culling for a week
Man alive what a train wreck first day , I lost critters had critters walking off a long way & apart from ****g me made me sick

I cut my ranges way down & was extremely picky on my shots & I lost my job on that property as my numbers were well down

That was one hard pill to swallow & vouched I'd never use it & to this day I have never used it

But I have confidence that a lot has been learned from those early days but once again I don't know if we can take it as gospel that a pill will behave the same in gel as critters
As the critter has different viscosities of tissues & those produce different resistances then add bones & some angles or bone structure will protect vitals
A Cape buffalo is great example as their ribs basically have no gaps between them

especially the further forward they are & to try & get a pill to penertrate these consistently is one that is hard to do

So I just go about testing on different critters trying to replicate that potential shot angle & what it does on rib bones ( horses are great )
Here's a pet cow for easier illustration

& shows the rib diameter but it's not just hitting a rib it's where you hit it & the angle then you eventually work out which pills work & which are less than ideal to a complete failure as if the transition zone is to long you watch a pill slide off these ribs

Now move to you've seen a lot of gel tests where the hammer exits the 20 od In mark & I have a theory on that , really don't know just guessing off observations in the field in critters

So when the hh , sh , ph &ah lines shed petals they predominantly shed them in around a 270 degree pattern ( very few 360 degrees ) this pattern puts tork on the pill & as it looses its stability in the gel along with the velocity the pill is drawn to one side & most likely I would assume the way of the rifling twist hence your exit of the gel block

Now move to critters & it's one I test a lot for as if your pill lacks straight line penetration it's useless imo of giving consistent results now this I've not seen in critters unless you have a compromised meplat ( levels of this before it becomes bad ) now the compromised meplat is nothing related to hammers this is industry wide issues & bones or shedding or mechanical broadhead issues are where you see these issues occurring

Now tumbling also is one I watch carefully as that also give's erratic results

Now some of the hammers were terrible & actually $h-t today it's somewhat changed as
This information was gathered & relayed to the hammerboys which the vast majority were fixed I believe ( I don't know & not privelaged of all the details on all those pills )

Now move to the hht
This pill has been immune to mechanical broadhead problems & so far has failed to produce one nose over where the hh ah line did have the issue occasionally & that decreased as hp size increased
Note what size hp Berger has as that's a clue on where it fails
I just checked my notes & 4 figures of critters ( various large game not wallaby & not starting with a 1 ) with the 215 Berger in a 300 wm & frontal rib slide was a issue on that pill among a couple of other issues & why I liked the amax better as it was a more consistent pill overall

So to me gel has a place for seeing what a pill does from a consistent media but I don't think it shows the true what does happen in critters

Some time ago on a coyote thread I put up don't dismiss those results on yotes as useless as information for large game ( I should've put not all ) I believe it can be useful but just like gel we will need to interpret a touch but some parts of a pill behaviour I believe it can be helpful

I've tuned my research on how pills act on wallabies today & I had some train wrecks also initially on this thought process but I learnt what to look for & today they are part of my evaluation of a pills preformance along with the various other critters I do to complete those trials

So gel im not as hard on it today but man I don't trust it as nothing like a critter to show the truth

Yep critters are my gel & I still doubt I'll use it but do enjoy watching it

Hope it makes sense

Cheers

 

[MtPockets]

Gday nksmfamjp

I'll confess straight up I hate gel & I've never had anything to do with it or the fbi or really don't know a lot on there full criteria only snippets on a little I've read

My hate
goes back when some one used it as a promotional tool & said in the article this is what it will do in critters

Well I was sucked in bought a heap of pills worked up loads & headed off culling for a week
Man alive what a train wreck first day , I lost critters had critters walking off a long way & apart from ****g me made me sick

I cut my ranges way down & was extremely picky on my shots & I lost my job on that property as my numbers were well down

That was one hard pill to swallow & vouched I'd never use it & to this day I have never used it

But I have confidence that a lot has been learned from those early days but once again I don't know if we can take it as gospel that a pill will behave the same in gel as critters
As the critter has different viscosities of tissues & those produce different resistances then add bones & some angles or bone structure will protect vitals
A Cape buffalo is great example as their ribs basically have no gaps between them
View attachment 551331especially the further forward they are & to try & get a pill to penertrate these consistently is one that is hard to do

So I just go about testing on different critters trying to replicate that potential shot angle & what it does on rib bones ( horses are great )
Here's a pet cow for easier illustration
View attachment 551332& shows the rib diameter but it's not just hitting a rib it's where you hit it & the angle then you eventually work out which pills work & which are less than ideal to a complete failure as if the transition zone is to long you watch a pill slide off these ribs

Now move to you've seen a lot of gel tests where the hammer exits the 20 od In mark & I have a theory on that , really don't know just guessing off observations in the field in critters

So when the hh , sh , ph &ah lines shed petals they predominantly shed them in around a 270 degree pattern ( very few 360 degrees ) this pattern puts tork on the pill & as it looses its stability in the gel along with the velocity the pill is drawn to one side & most likely I would assume the way of the rifling twist hence your exit of the gel block

Now move to critters & it's one I test a lot for as if your pill lacks straight line penetration it's useless imo of giving consistent results now this I've not seen in critters unless you have a compromised meplat ( levels of this before it becomes bad ) now the compromised meplat is nothing related to hammers this is industry wide issues & bones or shedding or mechanical broadhead issues are where you see these issues occurring

Now tumbling also is one I watch carefully as that also give's erratic results

Now some of the hammers were terrible & actually $h-t today it's somewhat changed as
This information was gathered & relayed to the hammerboys which the vast majority were fixed I believe ( I don't know & not privelaged of all the details on all those pills )

Now move to the hht
This pill has been immune to mechanical broadhead problems & so far has failed to produce one nose over where the hh ah line did have the issue occasionally & that decreased as hp size increased
Note what size hp Berger has as that's a clue on where it fails
I just checked my notes & 4 figures of critters ( various large game not wallaby & not starting with a 1 ) with the 215 Berger in a 300 wm & frontal rib slide was a issue on that pill among a couple of other issues & why I liked the amax better as it was a more consistent pill overall

So to me gel has a place for seeing what a pill does from a consistent media but I don't think it shows the true what does happen in critters

Some time ago on a coyote thread I put up don't dismiss those results on yotes as useless as information for large game ( I should've put not all ) I believe it can be useful but just like gel we will need to interpret a touch but some parts of a pill behaviour I believe it can be helpful

I've tuned my research on how pills act on wallabies today & I had some train wrecks also initially on this thought process but I learnt what to look for & today they are part of my evaluation of a pills preformance along with the various other critters I do to complete those trials

So gel im not as hard on it today but man I don't trust it as nothing like a critter to show the truth

Yep critters are my gel & I still doubt I'll use it but do enjoy watching it

Hope it makes sense

Cheers

Welcome back, Fordy!
Glad to see you're "back in business"!