Why I Crimp

Hey Bean,

Although I am an anti-crimper I gave your relentless crimping advice a shot with a custom rifle in 7WSM. I tested (again) my load using the 143HH bullet and a heavy crimp with the FCD. I have always used Fed 215M primers for this cartridge. Yesterday I shot 3 3-shot groups at 400yds. It was a windless day so I had no excuses if groups weren't up to par. To my amazement, the average group size was 1.8" for all three groups @ 400yds. ( It's actually 416yds)

If my math is still good I'm at just over .4 MOA. :>)

Thanks for the tip !!
 
Varmint Hunter said:
Hey Bean,

Although I am an anti-crimper I gave your relentless crimping advice a shot with a custom rifle in 7WSM. I tested (again) my load using the 143HH bullet and a heavy crimp with the FCD. I have always used Fed 215M primers for this cartridge. Yesterday I shot 3 3-shot groups at 400yds. It was a windless day so I had no excuses if groups weren't up to par. To my amazement, the average group size was 1.8" for all three groups @ 400yds. ( It's actually 416yds)

If my math is still good I'm at just over .4 MOA. :>)

Thanks for the tip !!
Click to expand...
I'm just glad to help
 
ButterBean said:
I know this is going to start the age old battle of crimp or not to crimp and that's not what I'm trying to do so I'm stating "This is why I crimp", This is my opinion so take it for that, I'm just sharing my personal experience and what works for me I am not a competition shooter nor do I claim to be Just a LRH . This is the second time this has happened to me in the past thirty years, the first was an Elk hunt in Oregon where I mailed my rifle and ammo out and then spent a week Horseback and the second time was yesterday, I will tell you that I do not abuse my guns, with that being said I use them for what they are intended for and I do not own anything that hasn't been "Well Used" No safe queens here, Now why I crimp, My Coyote Rig is a Rem 700 in 270 with 90 gr Sierra's, I loaded some rounds last month and got sidetracked and didn't crimp ( I use the Lee FCD on everything I load ) 10 rounds, I just let it go cause I wanted to get in the woods,these were loaded into a 5 rd Magazine two weeks ago, i hunt every evening an twice a day on the weekends 2 to 3 sets a trip and last Saturday my gun slipped off of my shoulder and landed on the Butt stock in a field and didn't hurt anything, fast forward to last night, I shot a ground hog ejected and chambered a new round and while unloading the weapon i saw the bullet in the second round in the mag was gone, upon examination I found the bullet had fell back in to the case, as i said this is the second time this has happened to me and why " I crimp" As for a side note this was 3X fired brass annealed, trimmed and FL resized every loading with a measured .0023 neck tension
Click to expand...
I have often thought about that with cutting necks for thickness, and using a standard die (either FL or NS dies) Now I haven't had the problem of pushing the bullet back into the case, but it concern me. With the changes that I am moving too I will be setting neck tension to a different standard. I have give it a lot of thought, feeling that, I may need to crimp the cases. I am changing out my old RCBS Standard die to bushing dies. Now I load for 22/250, 220 Swift, 6mm, 25/06, 6.5x55, 264 WM, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 N.M, & 338WM. So not being up on crimping tools, What would you suggest? Funding is not a problem so I am looking at top of the line equipment.
 
Mike Matteson said:
I have often thought about that with cutting necks for thickness, and using a standard die (either FL or NS dies) Now I haven't had the problem of pushing the bullet back into the case, but it concern me. With the changes that I am moving too I will be setting neck tension to a different standard. I have give it a lot of thought, feeling that, I may need to crimp the cases. I am changing out my old RCBS Standard die to bushing dies. Now I load for 22/250, 220 Swift, 6mm, 25/06, 6.5x55, 264 WM, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 N.M, & 338WM. So not being up on crimping tools, What would you suggest? Funding is not a problem so I am looking at top of the line equipment.
Click to expand...

I too am considering crimping, at least for one rifle. I've put together a LH 22-250 walk around coyote/groundhog rifle and have finished load development. With the Sierra 1365 boat tail soft point where the barrel likes it (.025" off the lands) there isn't much bullet in the case neck and I'm concerned about moving as the rifle is carried and jostled around.
 
I previously had a crimp die for my .458wm, when a .375H&H replaced that I got the Lee FCD.

People have recommended these for heavy recoiling cartridges for sometime that I know of.

I've posted earlier that I'm testing these on other cartridges to try help accuracy. While it's not neck tension it's said it may help consistent release pressure s aiding accuracy. As my issue is inconsistent velocity I'm trying this.

I have otherwise avoided Lee dies and products with the exception of the handpriners, I have several.

Regardless of budget I bought Redding and Hornady dies on my modest budget.

These Lee dies are inexpensive and might be a simple fix , certainly worth a try.

One disadvantage is the extra step but then I don't turn necks or anneal at this point and don't have bushing dies. I might try bushing dies in a rifle I use for some club level target shooting.

Looking at What ButterBean says about making sure the projectile does not move makes sense.

I used to travel dirt roads weekly and kept my 7-08 with me. I carried various ammo in a case hard cases and some of that done a lot of miles. I never had an issue but these could eliminate a potential issue in that situation.

A few more Lee FCD's turned up throught he week.

I know I'm gonna use them on any cartridge that I expect I will be traveling with. There would be nothing worse than stuffing up a hunting trip.

If I went up North to hunt it would be 4000miles return and costly. A $30 die could be a bloody good investment.
 
Mike Matteson said:
I have often thought about that with cutting necks for thickness, and using a standard die (either FL or NS dies) Now I haven't had the problem of pushing the bullet back into the case, but it concern me. With the changes that I am moving too I will be setting neck tension to a different standard. I have give it a lot of thought, feeling that, I may need to crimp the cases. I am changing out my old RCBS Standard die to bushing dies. Now I load for 22/250, 220 Swift, 6mm, 25/06, 6.5x55, 264 WM, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 N.M, & 338WM. So not being up on crimping tools, What would you suggest? Funding is not a problem so I am looking at top of the line equipment.
Click to expand...
The Lee FCD is the best IMO
 
Mike Matteson said:
I have often thought about that with cutting necks for thickness, and using a standard die (either FL or NS dies) Now I haven't had the problem of pushing the bullet back into the case, but it concern me. With the changes that I am moving too I will be setting neck tension to a different standard. I have give it a lot of thought, feeling that, I may need to crimp the cases. I am changing out my old RCBS Standard die to bushing dies. Now I load for 22/250, 220 Swift, 6mm, 25/06, 6.5x55, 264 WM, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 N.M, & 338WM. So not being up on crimping tools, What would you suggest? Funding is not a problem so I am looking at top of the line equipment.
Click to expand...
I've got Lee FCD for all that I load. It took some diligent searching to find the last 3 over the last 18 months. I finally got my .30-06 FCD after I found a years old ButterBean post where he was selling one in the old yellow box. Its as good as new. Keep your eyes peeled and you can likely find what you need.
 
ButterBean said:
I know this is going to start the age old battle of crimp or not to crimp and that's not what I'm trying to do so I'm stating "This is why I crimp", This is my opinion so take it for that, I'm just sharing my personal experience and what works for me I am not a competition shooter nor do I claim to be Just a LRH . This is the second time this has happened to me in the past thirty years, the first was an Elk hunt in Oregon where I mailed my rifle and ammo out and then spent a week Horseback and the second time was yesterday, I will tell you that I do not abuse my guns, with that being said I use them for what they are intended for and I do not own anything that hasn't been "Well Used" No safe queens here, Now why I crimp, My Coyote Rig is a Rem 700 in 270 with 90 gr Sierra's, I loaded some rounds last month and got sidetracked and didn't crimp ( I use the Lee FCD on everything I load ) 10 rounds, I just let it go cause I wanted to get in the woods,these were loaded into a 5 rd Magazine two weeks ago, i hunt every evening an twice a day on the weekends 2 to 3 sets a trip and last Saturday my gun slipped off of my shoulder and landed on the Butt stock in a field and didn't hurt anything, fast forward to last night, I shot a ground hog ejected and chambered a new round and while unloading the weapon i saw the bullet in the second round in the mag was gone, upon examination I found the bullet had fell back in to the case, as i said this is the second time this has happened to me and why " I crimp" As for a side note this was 3X fired brass annealed, trimmed and FL resized every loading with a measured .0023 neck tension
Click to expand...
Good Morning ButterBean, I'm on my first cup of what will probably be many coffee's and I tip my cup to you. I seldom ever crimped before unless I was loading a cartridge that would go into a tubular magazine (30-30 & 35 Rem for friends) There was a long discussion here about the need to crimp or not to crimp. Note that I have never had an issue with bullets falling out or in your instance back into the case in some 51 years of reloading metallic cartridges Last winter I purchased a 300WM (Christmas Present to Myself) which was actually my second 300 WM (Couldn't get the first rifle to group less than about 3 MOA no matter what I did to the rifle or using factory or hand loads. It got traded in.) I was already well versed in the intricacies of the heavy recoil that the 300 WM produced so the new rifle out of the box was sent off to have a custom muzzle brake installed (no downward gas release to blow crap back in your face when prone) Anyway since I now had a rifle that has (had) significant recoil I thought I would at least pay attention to your expertise and experience on crimping and bought a 300 WM Lee FCD from Midway. Cutting to the chase, I loaded up a box of 20 using IMR4350 and Barnes TSX 165 gr copper bullets heading out of the 26 inch barrel on the Browning around 3050 FPS. 10 of the rounds were lightly crimped the other 10 uncrimped. Out on the range I first fired the uncrimped which shot an average 0.752 group which is actually quite good in most peoples book. Then I fired the lightly crimped rounds. These groups averaged 0.49 inches or about 1/4 inch smaller. I have to admit I was impressed, actually ecstatic and there were some Hoots and Hollers in glee out on the range. My girlfriend Kathy thought I was having some kind seizure while I was dancing around the shooting bench. Any way, it's too early for beer so you are stuck with coffee. I want to thank you again for teaching me something new as well as to help me shrink my group to the Holy Grail of the 5 shot 1 hole group. Almost there. I will be ordering LEE FCD dies for all of the other calibers that I load

Teri Anne 🥰🥰🥰
 
Last edited:
Teri Anne said:
Good Morning ButterBean, I'm on my first cup of what will probably be many coffee's and I tip my cup to you. I seldom ever crimped before unless I was loading a cartridge that would go into a tubular magazine (30-30 & 35 Rem for friends) There was a long discussion here about the need to crimp or not to crimp. Note that I have never had an issue with bullets falling out or in your instance back into the case in some 51 years of reloading metallic cartridges Last winter I purchased a 300WM (Christmas Present to Myself) which was actually my second 300 WM (Couldn't get the first rifle to group less than about 3 MOA no matter what I did to the rifle or using factory or hand loads. It got traded in.) I was already well versed in the intricacies of the heavy recoil that the 300 WM produced so the new rifle out of the box was sent off to have a custom muzzle brake installed (no downward gas release to blow crap back in your face when prone) Anyway since I now had a rifle that has (had) significant recoil I thought I would at least pay attention to your expertise and experience on crimping and bought a 300 WM Lee FCD from Midway. Cutting to the chase, I loaded up a box of 20 using IMR4350 and Barnes TSX 165 gr copper bullets heading out of the 26 inch barrel on the Browning around 3050 FPS. 10 of the rounds were lightly crimped the other 10 uncrimped. Out on the range I first fired the uncrimped which shot an average 0.752 group which is actually quite good in most peoples book. Then I fired the lightly crimped rounds. These groups averaged 0.49 inches or about 1/4 inch smaller. I have to admit I was impressed, actually ecstatic and there were some Hoots and Hollers in glee out on the range. My girlfriend Kathy thought I was having some kind seizure while I dancing around the shooting bench. Any way, it's too early for beer so you are stuck with coffee. I want to thank you again for teaching me something new as well as to help me shrink my group to the Holy Grail of the 5 shot 1 hole group. Almost there. I will be ordering LEE FCD dies for all of the other calibers that I load

Teri Anne 🥰🥰🥰
Click to expand...
No thanks needed as I just want to help folks and by the way there are only two times, Daytime and Nighttime and they are both good for drinking beer😉
 
Teri Anne said:
Good Morning ButterBean, I'm on my first cup of what will probably be many coffee's and I tip my cup to you. I seldom ever crimped before unless I was loading a cartridge that would go into a tubular magazine (30-30 & 35 Rem for friends) There was a long discussion here about the need to crimp or not to crimp. Note that I have never had an issue with bullets falling out or in your instance back into the case in some 51 years of reloading metallic cartridges Last winter I purchased a 300WM (Christmas Present to Myself) which was actually my second 300 WM (Couldn't get the first rifle to group less than about 3 MOA no matter what I did to the rifle or using factory or hand loads. It got traded in.) I was already well versed in the intricacies of the heavy recoil that the 300 WM produced so the new rifle out of the box was sent off to have a custom muzzle brake installed (no downward gas release to blow crap back in your face when prone) Anyway since I now had a rifle that has (had) significant recoil I thought I would at least pay attention to your expertise and experience on crimping and bought a 300 WM Lee FCD from Midway. Cutting to the chase, I loaded up a box of 20 using IMR4350 and Barnes TSX 165 gr copper bullets heading out of the 26 inch barrel on the Browning around 3050 FPS. 10 of the rounds were lightly crimped the other 10 uncrimped. Out on the range I first fired the uncrimped which shot an average 0.752 group which is actually quite good in most peoples book. Then I fired the lightly crimped rounds. These groups averaged 0.49 inches or about 1/4 inch smaller. I have to admit I was impressed, actually ecstatic and there were some Hoots and Hollers in glee out on the range. My girlfriend Kathy thought I was having some kind seizure while I was dancing around the shooting bench. Any way, it's too early for beer so you are stuck with coffee. I want to thank you again for teaching me something new as well as to help me shrink my group to the Holy Grail of the 5 shot 1 hole group. Almost there. I will be ordering LEE FCD dies for all of the other calibers that I load

Teri Anne 🥰🥰🥰
Click to expand...
 
Ok, so I picked up a crimp die for my 7RM and reworked 15 rounds left after this falls hunt.
180 Berger VLD H
Fed 215 Mag primer
RE23
.002 neck tension
Annealed Nosler brass
26" 8.5 twist, braked Krieger #5 heavy sporter contour
5 shot groups
Lee FCD crimp die
Lab Radar

1. Uncrimped: fouled bore, average speed 2936 fps
ES 38 (including 1st shot that was 22 above average fps). 4 remaining shots had ES 20.

2. 1/8 turn crimp: average speed 2932 fps, ES 10

3. 1/4 turn crimp: average speed 2934 fps, ES 35 (including first shot that was 28 fps above average, light ejector)
4 remaining shots had ES 17

This rifle has a very tolerant attitude regarding ES but it's convincing to me that crimping 1/8 turn is about 1/2 the ES of .002 neck tension in uncrimped rounds. The 1/4 turn sends ES up 7 fps over the 1/8 turn crimp.
POI is still holding over all 3 groups.

So, some more data points on the Lee FCD.
Credit to Bean and those that are doing it.
 
good gravy 22 pages on why you crimp ? LOL

I have .001 neck tension and I had one bullet barely move in the magazine for my deer rifle... so no, I can't justify crimping. Loading pistol ammo to get rid of a bell for my revolver, yeah. After 12 round tests I was ok without it even at the end of a max load. I marked the bullets at the case mouth with a fine point pen.
 
milboltnut said:
good gravy 22 pages on why you crimp ? LOL

I have .001 neck tension and I had one bullet barely move in the magazine for my deer rifle... so no, I can't justify crimping. Loading pistol ammo to get rid of a bell for my revolver, yeah. After 12 round tests I was ok without it even at the end of a max load. I marked the bullets at the case mouth with a fine point pen.
Click to expand...
Holding a bullet in place is not the goal here. Tuning start pressure to the load can often get ES down in the single digits. This is very important in lowering vertical spread in long range groups. It is really no different than tuning OAL or turning necks. Each little adjustment can get you better performance at long range. Playing around with these "Little Things" are what makes our hobby so rewarding.
 
I don't see the necessity either way, not saying it doesn't help. I can achieve good results without it.
 

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