Dead soft brass!

[varminter65]

I'm a big fan of YouTube videos from "GunBlue490" as shown above. I used that particular video as basis for my rotating water pan torch annealing. I might even consider the melted salt method some other time, but my wife tends to get grouchier that normal when I spend too much money on my hobby.

 

[varminter65]

Important:

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Does anyone know the reason for cooling the annealed cases in a bucket of CLR? Does it help to clean out carbon etc from inside the case or is it to help clean the outside? This is the advise given in the 6mmbr annealing article but does not give a reason for doing so.

 

[Frank Kalisz]

I am not sure why anyone would want to throw them in a "CLR" solution... But I do use plain water as a heat sink to stop the annealing process so brass won't be over-annealed.

 

[Dirtrax]

No cooling is required. It doesn't hurt anything so if it makes you happy then do it. As far as CLR that's a new one.

 

[Frank Kalisz]

I like mostly like the water as a heat sink because it assures the base of my brass will never get softened.

 

[BoatTail]

So I took the best brass out of the ones I felt like I annealed too much and loaded them up. This is why you don't do it. What happens is when you over anneal it takes out or burns off some of the alloys that make up the brass, it becomes dead soft and doesn't expand and then contract like normal brass. Instead of expands and just sticks to the chamber wall causing hard extraction. I'm now going through all my brass and throwing away any of the ones that I improperly annealed.

 

[gator378]

So I took the best brass out of the ones I felt like I annealed too much and loaded them up. This is why you don't do it. What happens is when you over anneal it takes out or burns off some of the alloys that make up the brass, it becomes dead soft and doesn't expand and then contract like normal brass. Instead of expands and just sticks to the chamber wall causing hard extraction. I'm now going through all my brass and throwing away any of the ones that I improperly annealed.

Thanks for the info. Good post

 

[SidecarFlip]

So I took the best brass out of the ones I felt like I annealed too much and loaded them up. This is why you don't do it. What happens is when you over anneal it takes out or burns off some of the alloys that make up the brass, it becomes dead soft and doesn't expand and then contract like normal brass. Instead of expands and just sticks to the chamber wall causing hard extraction. I'm now going through all my brass and throwing away any of the ones that I improperly annealed.

Nothing is 'taken out' or 'burned off'. All over annealing does is the same thing it does to the neck but the body instead. Like the neck, the body gets soft and and has no springback which, is necessary for case extraction.

I'm very happy with my Annealeze, in fact, I anneal case mouths on straightwall handgun brass in magnum calibers, 44RM, 460 S&W, 416 and 500 S&W because the required heavy crimp shortens case life appreciably.

I use the Annealeze so much, I don't even use Templac anymore. I can tell by the color (I anneal in subdued light) when I have the correct temperature.

Far as I'm concerned, induction annealing is for people with a lot fatter wallet than I have.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

Cartridge brass is copper and zinc. Copper will boil 4600°f Zinc will boil at 1665°f. We are not "burning out" any alloying content from the brass even at over anealing temperatures. This is a heat treating process that changes the hardness. Not a chemical one that changes the volume of elements in the alloy.

 

[SidecarFlip]

So I took the best brass out of the ones I felt like I annealed too much and loaded them up. This is why you don't do it. What happens is when you over anneal it takes out or burns off some of the alloys that make up the brass, it becomes dead soft and doesn't expand and then contract like normal brass. Instead of expands and just sticks to the chamber wall causing hard extraction. I'm now going through all my brass and throwing away any of the ones that I improperly annealed.

You are very lucky you didn't have the case rupture in the chamber and blow back in your face because when you alter the crystaline structure of the brass by over annealing the body, you also lower the threshold at which the case will rupture..

Why most modern actions have cross drilled holes in the, to 'let the fire out' instead of travelling down the bolt and raceways into your face. Problem is, is some of the unretained gasses still come out the backend.

 

[BoatTail]

Nothing is 'taken out' or 'burned off'. All over annealing does is the same thing it does to the neck but the body instead. Like the neck, the body gets soft and and has no springback which, is necessary for case extraction.

I'm very happy with my Annealeze, in fact, I anneal case mouths on straightwall handgun brass in magnum calibers, 44RM, 460 S&W, 416 and 500 S&W because the required heavy crimp shortens case life appreciably.

I use the Annealeze so much, I don't even use Templac anymore. I can tell by the color (I anneal in subdued light) when I have the correct temperature.

Far as I'm concerned, induction annealing is for people with a lot fatter wallet than I have.

Take a look at this YouTube video it shows and explains what happens when you over anneal. It also clearly demonstrates the burn off some of the components of the brass that I talked about earlier. It just took me some time to find this again.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I was raised and schooled by a professional metallurgist, my dad. He made his living with metals, their properties and how they react to heat and cold. He was the head metallurgical chemist for the long gone Republic Steel Corporation. I followed in his footsteps as a profession tool and die maker, the profession I retired from. Let me just say that brass, in this case cartridge brass which is a specific alloy, will not liberate any of it's metallurgical components until the metal is heated will above 1000 degrees (f). Way beyond the temperature that you anneal cartridge brass at, which is 750 degrees (f) or just at the verge on dull red.

While neither here nor there, Machinery's Handbook (the bible of metalworking) lists those facts. I suggest you go to a library and read about the properties of metals and how heating and cooling impacts them. Better yet, buy a copy and have it on hand as a reference, not a 'You Tube video'. You'll learn lots more by reading facts rather than learning from opinions.

If you put credence in a You-Tube video as gospel, then you live in a much different world than I do. I base my assumptions on facts, not an entertainment video. I view You-Tube as entertainment only and as such, the content of those video's is mostly just that. Entertainment.

Didn't bother watching it. As entertainment value only, I prefer watching a Trump speech. Much more enlightening.

 

[brotherbear67]

I was raised and schooled by a professional metallurgist, my dad. He made his living with metals, their properties and how they react to heat and cold. He was the head metallurgical chemist for the long gone Republic Steel Corporation. I followed in his footsteps as a profession tool and die maker, the profession I retired from. Let me just say that brass, in this case cartridge brass which is a specific alloy, will not liberate any of it's metallurgical components until the metal is heated will above 1000 degrees (f). Way beyond the temperature that you anneal cartridge brass at, which is 750 degrees (f) or just at the verge on dull red.

While neither here nor there, Machinery's Handbook (the bible of metalworking) lists those facts. I suggest you go to a library and read about the properties of metals and how heating and cooling impacts them. Better yet, buy a copy and have it on hand as a reference, not a 'You Tube video'. You'll learn lots more by reading facts rather than learning from opinions.

If you put credence in a You-Tube video as gospel, then you live in a much different world than I do. I base my assumptions on facts, not an entertainment video. I view You-Tube as entertainment only and as such, the content of those video's is mostly just that. Entertainment.

Didn't bother watching it. As entertainment value only, I prefer watching a Trump speech. Much more enlightening.

Wow, glad your daddy was a metallurgist. My daddy is a tax accountant...doesn't mean I know all the tax laws. Yes, you can indeed "burn off" some of the metals used to make the cartridge brass. If you run an open fire torch, which many guys do, or even the amp annealer on the wrong setting, you can and will burn it out. You are heating it above the 700-750 temp by introducing high heat for an extended period. That is what everyone on this thread has been talking about. As far as the Trump remark goes, typical of the "My daddy said" mindset

 

[Dean2]

Wow, glad your daddy was a metallurgist. My daddy is a tax accountant...doesn't mean I know all the tax laws. Yes, you can indeed "burn off" some of the metals used to make the cartridge brass. If you run an open fire torch, which many guys do, or even the amp annealer on the wrong setting, you can and will burn it out. You are heating it above the 700-750 temp by introducing high heat for an extended period. That is what everyone on this thread has been talking about. As far as the Trump remark goes, typical of the "My daddy said" mindset

You are intentionally baiting Sidecar to deflect from the fact your are completely wrong. Simplest explanation for someone too lazy to learn metallurgy properly; You cannot burn off metal when it is in its solid state. To burn something off you must turn it into a gas, to become a gas most metals must first become molten, there are a couple of exceptions but none are components in brass. The laws of thermodynamics don't change. Continue to believe YouTube if you like, but try not to belittle a guy that was just trying to help out and is actually completely correct.